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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, please find below the notes from our last meeting. The next meeting is on Monday Dec 9th, 10:00-12:00 CET Best, Hannes ## Meeting Nov 25th 10:00 - 12:00 CET - Participants: Sam, Reynir, Hannes, Pierre ### OCaml 5 - https://github.com/mirage/ocaml-solo5/pull/134 - Sam continued and rebased that PR - the strerror is actually used, it was marked as TODO (we need to implement it) - Virgile restarted last week the measures on the Mirage website, but we don't have access to the Grafana dashboard - Hannes reviewed some bits and pieces of the ocaml-solo5 PR - The ocaml-src package relies on an extra file, META, that has been moved to opam-source-archives - There could either be a "echo ... > META" or a META.in file for the ocaml-src package, hannes will take a look and propose PRs -- an empty META file may be sufficient - TODO: rebase the patches on 5.2.1 - question: what about the LICENSE if we take values (and comments) from an existing project -- maybe we should copy the entire errno.h? ### unikraft - there's something that works with networking (didn't look into block devices yet) ### Results from performance experiments - Pierre did some benchmarks https://github.com/palainp/simple-fw/tree/no-cstruct - running with solo5-spt as a Qubes guest | Av. bandwitdh (Gbits/sec) | Ocaml 4.14.1 | Ocaml 5.2 | C relay | |---------------------------|--------------------|-----------------|-------------| | Cstruct as BA | 1.16 | 1.12 | 1.58 | | Cstruct as bytes | 1.42 | 1.41 | 1.58 | - running with separate VMs (iperf client, bridge/firewall, iperf server) resulted in the C implementation being slower than the MirageOS ones - TODO someone else reproducing the benchmarks on a separate infrastructure - TODO optimize the C implementation (?) - We can use a bridge interface (brctl) with both network interfaces (so we don't copy from kernel space to user space) - TODO try with virtio - Sam: maybe use sendfile? (that'd be an optimization for the C relay) - To conclude, moving Cstruct from bigarray to bytes improves the performance - Hannes likes the simple-fw performance setup for the lower layers of the network stack, we can learn a lot: different backends, flambda2, trying out queueing (instead of one VMEXIT per packet send/recv) - The remaining blocker for cstruct-as-bytes is the xen backend which relies on non-moving page-aligned memory being passed around. We should continue to work on adapting that code (to use io-page) - Pierre also mentioned that we can look deeper into what allocations we can remove to improve the performance From mirageos-devel-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Fri Dec 06 07:47:38 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Fri, 06 Dec 2024 07:47:38 +0000 Received: from list by lists.xenproject.org with outflank-mailman.849888.1264385 (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tJT3p-0005km-Ry; Fri, 06 Dec 2024 07:47:37 +0000 X-Outflank-Mailman: Message body and most headers restored to incoming version Received: by outflank-mailman (output) from mailman id 849888.1264385; Fri, 06 Dec 2024 07:47:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xenproject.org) by lists.xenproject.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tJT3p-0005ke-PN; Fri, 06 Dec 2024 07:47:37 +0000 Received: by outflank-mailman (input) for mailman id 849888; Fri, 06 Dec 2024 07:47:36 +0000 Received: from se1-gles-sth1-in.inumbo.com ([159.253.27.254] helo=se1-gles-sth1.inumbo.com) by lists.xenproject.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tJT3o-0005kR-2k for mirageos-devel@lists.xenproject.org; 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c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mehnert.org; s=mail; t=1733471255; bh=Exb/mGhwNIxWQznkN8E0nwD9ULaBjbK7JAmbYMkzRa8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject; b=K7jWqe7MJOt7brEyK0daGrnfNSMgRViDyYEy6FFOZzmWeFu2D8CAcyqgJ2q4Lpp74 8RIi4OrHKyGzUySaszKe2fnchnsdhqosKAGIcKvgKEAc3bIjSQ4Ksd1CEpQeWwBJ0a m0t1RrzcWZ1U7vz7EdYQn/d/CNwOrhU2ltn01nwV5ueosY3P76SSwPFN2J0A4cs9Ws cMc42WwuQ3GxeTYMX1xevfdSNBMnuU5RUZdUyjXoohZprBcVdZYyQOlnkeD6krb8JZ xucaBZbVxndkKq0w923SFZ8Eb1LitRzwtEwbJUaHbKPA3XXLOkt9BPteFLBtmiTHW6 RacYRSKDaaJQQ== Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2024 08:47:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: mirageos-devel From: Hannes Mehnert Subject: next meeting: Monday Dec 9th 10:00 - 12:00 CET Autocrypt: addr=hannes@mehnert.org; keydata= xsFLBEIw1AoBEADAtXwEV8F1DBpE9lnBTbHDNeZwDVp84MhxxIT5GUexGgbOWGSEWHhC3rYe FfGRUxF4M9P4fwxpxCS5YCvxoijWHeEf8nG5IkztVv5cw63E443XWHcCMc80YAwglZ2cSP4U GTNeKb9rqVPckk/PL348BYRawhzvZK+Bc+bUvbtPCfUXT1BWIxAR1dzsfpAQVNZ4bA06xOoP QJYVNgl/lWOmQgnSgb0dE2zsgddKTOj05ru7Q7LobB7WAUTRJVkZcXnrvI1SOt/WbPTyqF8l RBh94xCqFhv4SlqZVOTXxo9gw3LpDv/cYXRl/m7+/7Wljl3ziQ9cawA6O1mbw8nm7Sfa+TZl qo+5lXEenXG+MCbH0XnnL2I4BO6HSGDtKX6htTG2xs6w4r9mVxTGJuJcGrC0dxuz5j4jylt/ KOVn9IaRKzhj8ga7kWffMp+JYdrn43732weoFFJxm78mD2ij4UbJtNkQIIcTv8IBJajHy2P3 h1NuBIwwb7RmBav4oo0CKWoasIHFwjMSBpCzJ8QOHeO/F3TY3DZp7FTwViUgSXVJoewO9yFG ctX7MC27/F1IonU9/SJW0j+F3Vz32SfxUBrDnLYpO7/vwA8w+xmWLnl0iJN/8injz5+CigsP e7O66t4MtC9BVCuLu7a/ikH5nW0q6RyTW8of9eZIsuEyqF1ZPwAGKc0jSGFubmVzIE1laG5l cnQgPGhhbm5lc0BtZWhuZXJ0Lm9yZz7CwXQEEwECAB4FAkIw1A0CGwMGCwkIBwMCAxUCAwMW AgECHgECF4AACgkQvIlliN98KO5HYg//UD6gk4sFcNop/EQivcnpfPnHrrUddsBl9bovQSXb zIh5HY/8xhO5i87n5Aox9jYLcZwa6HJ3ElHMOa+n9AY4/+H8bd+BiHWTgEhEzcZqcYwyP2S2 0X/e/m/+1XYs5tldKNZb7ruYRv6rNyUAF1H8EtYNaJpmGtXYurkMhWhEgeP9YB7svmkUN+JO og91tNhN1Wd10/JfKIytNcpXmW6zij0f3MJw/kdwIsmfSUMPaiEli+eB7nU0uLZWf4C3MWTT NmwNznEya5K9McH1Wc/lO9+oB+zRXFBUM/v9YaiyPZo0JcwSRdVYKvKteyqnL/lnx7vtkOnA EC/bcmMvlWLI+Q4Vw2cr2FKcIpJVwswZ5snFqgDr4O5JB88aEAzPFzyWWeBlVqXc0DbDu8jD YmG3yp/xn5UJQSRy6eUcXICNjJyIwekUCznRmhtGwkGFCFEZH/s2fQ7nETxZcuiE4meRnVQE 9lOafI5D+dlsG3SlyN1x0YvrPismep7PwA6FX3cDyz2iUUj4xICLvRLU6kq892KuFmv75pop VAZjJMQqc8BG3oN2YkDcO4NEuOT9/r9muk/WH5Mqcs2BJEG6+yiQ13uMS5TxXiPFp3vKRlq0 MFnm7YRZr5aK6B/WGLOHnRRb2OdAzUgsj4Qiyqvh8Ab+x9wjLwGePxlA1akrF2hQItfOwUsE QjDUdAEQAOHG4vdGxU3eH5hYDLYRsQP6ofoU36pV8iFEtZRJ833L5p9GP2xFUGVDH8yTdkdf QR1prsCJXA7sE/gYBf3k9lGicJQmYNo3uW9Ngz787BhiQJyW/JXcutyTt9b/AZmfJaDo1p0C 8IEtoG7wt4+giFwAJ1brTJtyxlKOGcjWiKh1/dTh13muXSOPcCmhNs4Zm0YNjrhW9nIn1iik lpMRJCCxY1RNcU2VZXfTqq63UTaIrZ1lgYXWilnTdpXt5UEDYBw8Ee6tpPfQflC02e8hbDeD JEP9MTM9pmmPOwZQXP36hTryakKt1Kpw3hgC+Yx9q4wwaZ4XIiWUgopT5mlI+LhnzCgO05YN NcPrbsr6Js34gC3odNicD+C1jSdOXCqAPZZNiVx0PBjRv+LbBZhUkjQJxidvXmrp55pLm+Ua IVl3E/HpFY8kTaJBHP7jvLp+W4J9tP64Ijk5Y9F0z93JwMspG671xuomFsRxUtyO6vldd7qH 1yVzDX7Dd0fAzMDOPQJW6zLiixCmA0McaZdeBXapMJDDoZAPY4pCbRyJJXe0tfv9ufzJrM8Z JHylONdBiIKWw0JldXkUvIGafl1JDOHjP1XoDWrSDO8yFhBR3uWxJy9u1s7aKvonQb5IcYU1 nPu1Olg3doPugXyC0V05MIa68iKw+Kv8KtDDWyibndoTAAYpwsFfBBgBAgAJBQJCMNR1AhsM AAoJELyJZYjffCjuelUP/jlCsxLzu3fZpuORY2LsOQMd4nFHSZLUjauLxDUn8jE//32IIJ0v QV9ab4k7JCLOuYJTTd9aYD6rkITZIVhAcsR/FQZNgVOvGTj6tAmNyn385vMz0p4bLOOy5T0C KMLKzzS4Rt4XgtzvH2xDXSHfPsqS/t/5WFkO+aLgcPALldWGQPgRu5DNoCLr989gCGu5vmd4 XwMRBt/LmJGI0v0EypL3eRmlGaUw5k6N1hStu4EETzdikAzXP5KTuloEXq/caYeUs/SIb5zi XVC1ISW0CIwj5ATbMh8DMG4splXCsajtnJjsKJATBZIWV4XoNqtgV+pQn1ShmW36nUfVGqzX AQ+9i/M+CCkxBrb85Bk8I1CA1nBHNk5SQqER40VRp6vcmuxvIBGi6t8dDWsDQ2q3kd4RjjDZ kYjSie7176bb9t5MfUGjA9WckHuyi+vjy3+sC/nRzByhXf+8iZsO2no3xWZkGUWI8F2hhpzW VsXqvC27LZvJk53fJbpuSueN8a7JKfbKPDqoDSsRaEtcM7ig475tqA/ZCzv6mdqhEV5buoLu cpW7UgYzjNQQXeYZygGWc7FTV3dqLmF1MY2+RlydQbUDjcj1CJ+UmKyxgoLyf7ru0sznr7Tp K4WDnVeJdWX1mqoSupF/u5LON1vpzh3OIl5NNAuV68Hb5On/ALC+DwFX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, we'll meet on Monday, https://meet.jit.si/MirageOS, shared pad https://pad.data.coop/To6IOSeNSOK9kFVlgo7XWw?both# See you soon, Hannes From mirageos-devel-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Mon Dec 16 10:42:55 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Mon, 16 Dec 2024 10:42:55 +0000 Received: from list by lists.xenproject.org with outflank-mailman.857711.1269926 (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tN8Ym-0001DW-L1; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 10:42:44 +0000 X-Outflank-Mailman: Message body and most headers restored to incoming version Received: by outflank-mailman (output) from mailman id 857711.1269926; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 10:42:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xenproject.org) by lists.xenproject.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tN8Ym-0001DP-IP; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 10:42:44 +0000 Received: by outflank-mailman (input) for mailman id 857711; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 10:42:43 +0000 Received: from se1-gles-flk1-in.inumbo.com ([94.247.172.50] helo=se1-gles-flk1.inumbo.com) by lists.xenproject.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tN8Yl-0001DH-FY for mirageos-devel@lists.xenproject.org; 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Mon, 16 Dec 2024 02:42:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2024 10:42:38 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: mirageos-devel Content-Language: en-US From: Nick Betteridge Subject: A unikernel for building unikernels Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear All, Does anyone know of any unikernels that can build unikernels for the local platform, using something like ocaml-monorepo and, perhaps, irmin? Hannes has suggested looking at something like ocamlnat [1], which would be one way of tackling the issue, but I was wondering if anyone had considered or implemented any other approaches to solve this  - I would really love to move away from using the relatively bulky Docker infrastructure and associated maintenance. Best wishes, Nick [1] https://github.com/bmeurer/ocamlnat From mirageos-devel-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Mon Dec 16 12:55:43 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Mon, 16 Dec 2024 12:55:43 +0000 Received: from list by lists.xenproject.org with outflank-mailman.858005.1270247 (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tNAdM-0001YI-5S; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 12:55:36 +0000 X-Outflank-Mailman: Message body and most headers restored to incoming version Received: by outflank-mailman (output) from mailman id 858005.1270247; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 12:55:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xenproject.org) by lists.xenproject.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tNAdM-0001YB-2C; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 12:55:36 +0000 Received: by outflank-mailman (input) for mailman id 858005; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 12:55:35 +0000 Received: from se1-gles-sth1-in.inumbo.com ([159.253.27.254] helo=se1-gles-sth1.inumbo.com) by lists.xenproject.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tNAdK-0001Xm-Td for mirageos-devel@lists.xenproject.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 12:55:34 +0000 Received: from mail-wm1-x330.google.com (mail-wm1-x330.google.com [2a00:1450:4864:20::330]) by se1-gles-sth1.inumbo.com (Halon) with ESMTPS id 09b73eca-bbad-11ef-a0d6-8be0dac302b0; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 13:55:34 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail-wm1-x330.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-43621d27adeso27751175e9.2 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 04:55:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (napsach001.hosting-cea.net. 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This is used to build and deploy mirageos.org. It=E2=80=99s based on = ocurrent/obduilder (with a sandbox mechanism similar to Docker) We (at Tarides) are also working on a prototype platform to build and = deploy unikernels =E2=80=94 should be available next year. Let me know = if you want to be an early tester. Best, Thomas > On 16 Dec 2024, at 11:42, Nick Betteridge = wrote: >=20 > Dear All, >=20 > Does anyone know of any unikernels that can build unikernels for the = local platform, using something like ocaml-monorepo and, perhaps, irmin? >=20 > Hannes has suggested looking at something like ocamlnat [1], which = would be one way of tackling the issue, but I was wondering if anyone = had considered or implemented any other approaches to solve this - I = would really love to move away from using the relatively bulky Docker = infrastructure and associated maintenance. >=20 > Best wishes, >=20 > Nick >=20 > [1] https://github.com/bmeurer/ocamlnat >=20 >=20 From mirageos-devel-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Mon Dec 16 13:55:26 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Mon, 16 Dec 2024 13:55:26 +0000 Received: from list by lists.xenproject.org with outflank-mailman.858054.1270294 (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tNBZ9-00034s-3y; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 13:55:19 +0000 X-Outflank-Mailman: Message body and most headers restored to incoming version Received: by outflank-mailman (output) from mailman id 858054.1270294; 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Mon, 16 Dec 2024 05:55:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <9c956612-b5bd-4b5d-9417-5349caa49e31@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2024 13:55:14 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: A unikernel for building unikernels To: Thomas Gazagnaire , mirageos-devel Cc: Virgile Robles References: <07CB6CA4-D457-4417-AE1C-10A4AD71309D@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Nick Betteridge In-Reply-To: <07CB6CA4-D457-4417-AE1C-10A4AD71309D@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Thomas, Thanks for the mirage-ci reference - I'm not really looking for a ci pipeline, just a compile harness where I can take a small unikernel repo, of which I'm confident on the code integrity/soundness, and build the unikernel for the platform it's to be deployed to. Having this as a unikernel would really complete the mirage environment. Always happy to look at, and give feedback on, unikernel platforms - providing the license is right :) Best, Nick On 12/16/24 12:55, Thomas Gazagnaire wrote: > ,Hi Nick, > > Not totallu sure if that’s what you are looking for but did you check https://github.com/ocurrent/mirage-ci? > > This is used to build and deploy mirageos.org. It’s based on ocurrent/obduilder (with a sandbox mechanism similar to Docker) > > We (at Tarides) are also working on a prototype platform to build and deploy unikernels — should be available next year. Let me know if you want to be an early tester. > > Best, > Thomas > >> On 16 Dec 2024, at 11:42, Nick Betteridge wrote: >> >> Dear All, >> >> Does anyone know of any unikernels that can build unikernels for the local platform, using something like ocaml-monorepo and, perhaps, irmin? >> >> Hannes has suggested looking at something like ocamlnat [1], which would be one way of tackling the issue, but I was wondering if anyone had considered or implemented any other approaches to solve this - I would really love to move away from using the relatively bulky Docker infrastructure and associated maintenance. >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Nick >> >> [1] https://github.com/bmeurer/ocamlnat >> >> From mirageos-devel-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Mon Dec 16 14:08:24 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Mon, 16 Dec 2024 14:08:24 +0000 Received: from list by lists.xenproject.org with outflank-mailman.858102.1270348 (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tNBlj-00071H-5l; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 14:08:19 +0000 X-Outflank-Mailman: Message body and most headers restored to incoming version Received: by outflank-mailman (output) from mailman id 858102.1270348; 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Nick, On 16/12/2024 11:42, Nick Betteridge wrote: > Does anyone know of any unikernels that can build unikernels for the > local platform, using something like ocaml-monorepo and, perhaps, irmin? I'm afraid I'm not aware of such a unikernel - though that'd be great, one that is able to compile itself (let's keep the C objects for the OCaml runtime as given). > Hannes has suggested looking at something like ocamlnat [1], which would What I meant was not that ocamlnat, but the one provided by the OCaml compiler distribution -- on the 4.14 branch the toplevel/native directory (https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/tree/4.14/toplevel/native) -- make ocamlnat > be one way of tackling the issue, but I was wondering if anyone had > considered or implemented any other approaches to solve this  - I would > really love to move away from using the relatively bulky Docker > infrastructure and associated maintenance. What we use is actually docker (or FreeBSD jails): - we use the `mirage configure` generated opam file(s) as input (in our unikernel-repo https://git.robur.coop/robur/unikernel-repo) - we then use builder (https://github.com/robur-coop/builder) as a client/server architecture to schedule builds from the scheduler (server) to the workers (that are polling for builds) - here, we once say 'builder-client orb-build hello mirage-unikernel-hello-hvt' (where "hello" is the job name, and "mirage-unikernel-hello-hvt" the opam name), and then get a daily build thereof - manually we schedule a build with "builder-client execute hello" - the builder-worker is running within a jail/docker container to have a think layer of dependencies - the builder driver is orb (https://github.com/robur-coop/orb) that basically uses the opam API to execute the build while preserving information required for reproducing the build Now, another stepping stone is builder-web (https://git.robur.coop/robur/builder-web/) where builder uploads the builds and we have a nice web interface (https://builds.robur.coop) with failed builds (https://builds.robur.coop/failed-builds), some visualizations (binary size, dependencies), a database of the builds (we can compare builds - i.e. https://builds.robur.coop/compare/c43f6d82-9a28-4482-94e9-cf14e50816c0/920b68e8-1ed7-47ee-a5a4-eacef52e1f92 -- and if you look on the first build, it resulted in a 7.75MB hvt image, the second only a 6.97MB -- while the difference is an update of charrua that dropped sexplib dependencies), and finally also binary package repositories (pkg.robur.coop / apt.robur.coop) for the utilities just mentioned: orb. builder, builder-web, (and also albatross, solo5). So, on our build machines we use these package repositories to "apt update && apt upgrade". Bootstrapping may be a bit tedious - that's why we provide the binaries for common platforms / OS (if yours is missing, don't hesitate to complain). Back to the 'self-building MirageOS unikernel' - I guess apart from the C compiler, and the linking step this could be achieved with a reasonable effort. Hope that helped, Hannes From mirageos-devel-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Mon Dec 16 15:31:38 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Mon, 16 Dec 2024 15:31:38 +0000 Received: from list by lists.xenproject.org with outflank-mailman.858329.1270566 (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tND4B-000737-Ql; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 15:31:27 +0000 X-Outflank-Mailman: Message body and most headers restored to incoming version Received: by outflank-mailman (output) from mailman id 858329.1270566; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 15:31:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xenproject.org) by lists.xenproject.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tND4B-000730-O5; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 15:31:27 +0000 Received: by outflank-mailman (input) for mailman id 858329; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 15:31:26 +0000 Received: from se1-gles-sth1-in.inumbo.com ([159.253.27.254] helo=se1-gles-sth1.inumbo.com) by lists.xenproject.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tND4A-00072o-Jy for mirageos-devel@lists.xenproject.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 15:31:26 +0000 Received: from mail-wr1-x436.google.com (mail-wr1-x436.google.com [2a00:1450:4864:20::436]) by se1-gles-sth1.inumbo.com (Halon) with ESMTPS id cf50f9ce-bbc2-11ef-a0d6-8be0dac302b0; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 16:31:25 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail-wr1-x436.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3863c36a731so3057486f8f.1 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 07:31:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.128] ([84.71.191.161]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-388c80470afsm8574584f8f.75.2024.12.16.07.31.23 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 16 Dec 2024 07:31:23 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: mirageos-devel@lists.xenproject.org List-Id: Developer list for MirageOS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: mirageos-devel-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Precedence: list Sender: "MirageOS-devel" X-Inumbo-ID: cf50f9ce-bbc2-11ef-a0d6-8be0dac302b0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1734363084; x=1734967884; darn=lists.xenproject.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=KmSv6fL7ohO5E11exNzScoyp7o/0+OfdcIs5XGVyAfw=; b=f7H7wrYZmH7M+s2ZBRtnFgrLQi1AwUp7t5/jGqunfkVk/DiQi4HE8EXj8J98wReoK9 y28o7IEaLjCWYEYWyYwhDKNjmqHlYaovIQmDoJwjWctz/HpRC6CaZcg8FGUKHHoJk36a 7Ydl1qmYOCLesAFA0k7egxaDB15UHfKdm87Ukubj0gPGDzM99ro/Q4IxB8UYjo0LRXk6 7PfBjTSTLfrLDNLomB9arKeU/9PQqDRRUaIJlSennzXlO7XTt1n0QhUzq8T8g41UG/Kq RmKReVG3P7zEAfvm1vftCiYKwuBPsHcFbGacU0XzGn0RCcEF7XH1/k+1fh/XhZfsU3Id Nylg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1734363084; x=1734967884; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=KmSv6fL7ohO5E11exNzScoyp7o/0+OfdcIs5XGVyAfw=; b=qSUvksZLy41VevO1CJuTI1cT38fhmlnGm+VHaWwmazOzr5nGE4ngdhedW9WouOCBue CMi5Q5J5FAfgYgoE0wEhTzyXnSIUjLhhWwKv2xWcB+GHLK2hjZ98oRxCCGJCyVTyb/fk UJepS0VQhNdT9DwGE3rpc6jykA0bEhBKAyuY08jCtPVBJRkOr++9UQoFYX3Fqo0d83qp hUbf1e1YWWbcZOTeam6ZHcuPsENJXDc0+MRSl78/uA3XknZ9ojV55rpDJN/3qOlrJFq7 xq6Vg6NCEK5DoUbnwGrsy4Mhk/vVOIB9Cuay4FDPqW6EKLCttW9B4GAQpWNbud1hpYqX Uosg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxhjDyJDtYXUobZsjBYyvesiF+/y0DxUZdv4n55K62/IfLd4CIh 7g5E0EoI2pK1zPri/hxDZto9DIY9pnS6xxn/R1EzfOHgr4xi/cQwG3z1Eg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctWWJhkHuKkITk7WTVZzwhkyA2sCoiqwy3CrNS7PKXcJrz1CO2CsFu1U36/cAA 2MpaKnGo2xHjsGoDPaeWGzmZ0HyGirKUM0SOdbb7dmwJgwrPS8ePyt7Q/99QHydKnsk1+rqZxkF 6+Eqhk6c1wIO2ZBGGZwTysyNqHukh6MuOkG1kOnNBZs3aZl1r3q5zsyshXsosQXOSmpUNg6hNa/ 7PzQr53JEEhvKvMdCrg5sG6tP7S59iw1OOZFFQIyRUpEHpzmplreDg94MFDnrBLOCQLI1Tt X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFdjjE2G4X3dMJcU1jWwvfeqRymEW+Ocwt6EXrbW/UD/Jmt1UpGfI0Ty+t1jCyq7HEFSrxGGw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:2a5:b0:385:f840:e630 with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3888e0b9bc0mr8472065f8f.37.1734363084259; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 07:31:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <9aef160b-ca1f-4e6e-acf7-edf7b45d8085@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2024 15:31:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: A unikernel for building unikernels To: mirageos-devel@lists.xenproject.org References: <8c2697df-19b6-4f29-93bf-51df51117cd3@mehnert.org> Content-Language: en-US From: Nick Betteridge In-Reply-To: <8c2697df-19b6-4f29-93bf-51df51117cd3@mehnert.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Hannes, Thanks for your detailed reply - very useful and a great overview of how you and Robur handle the compilation chain. Thanks for the correct ocamlnat link - I should have asked at the time! I also naively overlooked the issue of the C compiler/linker being available in a mirage unikernel. I'll take a good look at both the ocaml ocamlnat and Robur's platform binaries using docker/jails. I guess the only alternative is to use something like Buildroot + ocaml-monorepo and run it virtually with kvm etc. Anyhow, again, thanks for taking the trouble to give a detailed overview. Best, Nick On 12/16/24 14:08, Hannes Mehnert wrote: > Dear Nick, > > On 16/12/2024 11:42, Nick Betteridge wrote: >> Does anyone know of any unikernels that can build unikernels for the >> local platform, using something like ocaml-monorepo and, perhaps, irmin? > > I'm afraid I'm not aware of such a unikernel - though that'd be great, > one that is able to compile itself (let's keep the C objects for the > OCaml runtime as given). > >> Hannes has suggested looking at something like ocamlnat [1], which would > > What I meant was not that ocamlnat, but the one provided by the OCaml > compiler distribution -- on the 4.14 branch the toplevel/native > directory (https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/tree/4.14/toplevel/native) > -- make ocamlnat > >> be one way of tackling the issue, but I was wondering if anyone had >> considered or implemented any other approaches to solve this  - I >> would really love to move away from using the relatively bulky Docker >> infrastructure and associated maintenance. > > What we use is actually docker (or FreeBSD jails): > - we use the `mirage configure` generated opam file(s) as input (in > our unikernel-repo https://git.robur.coop/robur/unikernel-repo) > - we then use builder (https://github.com/robur-coop/builder) as a > client/server architecture to schedule builds from the scheduler > (server) to the workers (that are polling for builds) >   - here, we once say 'builder-client orb-build hello > mirage-unikernel-hello-hvt' (where "hello" is the job name, and > "mirage-unikernel-hello-hvt" the opam name), and then get a daily > build thereof >   - manually we schedule a build with "builder-client execute hello" >   - the builder-worker is running within a jail/docker container to > have a think layer of dependencies > - the builder driver is orb (https://github.com/robur-coop/orb) that > basically uses the opam API to execute the build while preserving > information required for reproducing the build > > Now, another stepping stone is builder-web > (https://git.robur.coop/robur/builder-web/) where builder uploads the > builds and we have a nice web interface (https://builds.robur.coop) > with failed builds (https://builds.robur.coop/failed-builds), some > visualizations (binary size, dependencies), a database of the builds > (we can compare builds - i.e. > https://builds.robur.coop/compare/c43f6d82-9a28-4482-94e9-cf14e50816c0/920b68e8-1ed7-47ee-a5a4-eacef52e1f92 > -- and if you look on the first build, it resulted in a 7.75MB hvt > image, the second only a 6.97MB -- while the difference is an update > of charrua that dropped sexplib dependencies), and finally also binary > package repositories (pkg.robur.coop / apt.robur.coop) for the > utilities just mentioned: orb. builder, builder-web, (and also > albatross, solo5). > > So, on our build machines we use these package repositories to "apt > update && apt upgrade". Bootstrapping may be a bit tedious - that's > why we provide the binaries for common platforms / OS (if yours is > missing, don't hesitate to complain). > > > Back to the 'self-building MirageOS unikernel' - I guess apart from > the C compiler, and the linking step this could be achieved with a > reasonable effort. > > > Hope that helped, > > Hannes >