From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Wed Sep 03 09:08:48 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:08:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XP6YZ-0004r7-ND; Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:08:47 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta4.messagelabs.com ([85.158.143.247]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XMlFP-0003pJ-AZ for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 21:59:19 +0000 Received: from [85.158.143.35:21884] by server-3.bemta-4.messagelabs.com id 17/64-06192-6B45EF35; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 21:59:18 +0000 X-Env-Sender: lclark@linuxfoundation.org X-Msg-Ref: server-14.tower-21.messagelabs.com!1409176755!12062695!1 X-Originating-IP: [74.125.82.51] X-SpamReason: No, hits=1.2 required=7.0 tests=BODY_RANDOM_LONG, HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,RCVD_BY_IP X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 9295 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2014 21:59:15 -0000 Received: from mail-wg0-f51.google.com (HELO mail-wg0-f51.google.com) (74.125.82.51) by server-14.tower-21.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 27 Aug 2014 21:59:15 -0000 Received: by mail-wg0-f51.google.com with SMTP id l18so53825wgh.34 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:59:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linuxfoundation.org; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=W5S5kdqad2tOJ9pix91M0t4dQ4PWsyQPSTBgna+wtXg=; b=LM/FsPe8Ylx9t5UkzOnthCwubR9yGWfjZnneoKASHU3T3O3IZfyAQnlfkKt1lSdNKg Pz5+9uwikGbJR2WVAInRgC1CbCBnm42HRBuwzcV4ss9iDuWfZesxo/+6majPLCsRoM/H FZ0uSyabOYrXEGQ1P/cEoiQMhAMigNW2QMFYw= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=W5S5kdqad2tOJ9pix91M0t4dQ4PWsyQPSTBgna+wtXg=; b=FZ5gMtqj2OdXVfDNabxW9GAsgfBZddAj2zWswfYqVtB/D9kBJLjh1LWv2H8YAhLb6D cHsLmwdNrdBL7iHrOlyBoJ4/1QLAuecLUFXJ4kNMAk6oUbi4T5I1/VeYQzmfQSOnGmvE R2UL97h5lP7nQ+EvCzU8eBASWjzVBG1Hjctty8lwx03qTQEp8N8OqmmhacYwDIxHIn/2 LTWNcl9klZ7yjxTU1WvYUdW18l2Gg7VOFfEzOxJjq9PnlfqMyuZgF2Agl+YEEKYFRrQC XL88RtPx5cGdiXkbFKT6+eQblugyxi8BDyjdz2UzlIeqwQ8J+a/kHmbjLBAEe5Z/slIB dy3w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnI72t7oKGeBg60hbJMGwPg4iimD9PHfWAY41GL3dcLTzx/NabwrZT5Ya4d0+GAiJPpuGAw MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.3.106 with SMTP id b10mr21436125wjb.3.1409176755166; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.75.138 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:59:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2A12092B-929C-4C86-B1FA-8EE55A9854DB@cam.ac.uk> References: <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273C98B@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <833138C1-BFAB-480D-B138-D500EF005AEF@recoil.org> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273CC5D@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273D7D5@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <2ECF831C-2188-4702-B77B-39F31EA1D3A0@linuxfoundation.org> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276C7D7@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276D575@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <1A5A1F00-05E8-4C83-B388-A67D5D69C4B9@cam.ac.uk> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276E461@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <2A12092B-929C-4C86-B1FA-8EE55A9854DB@cam.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 16:59:15 -0500 Message-ID: From: Libby Clark To: Amir Chaudhry X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:08:46 +0000 Cc: Lars Kurth , George Dunlap , "publicity@lists.xenproject.org list" Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1690430836433031630==" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org --===============1690430836433031630== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3a838eeaead40501a387c7 --047d7b3a838eeaead40501a387c7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks everyone for your input. I'm prepping Russ's latest revision for publication on Linux.com tomorrow (Thursday). I agree that it's too good to scrap, and there's value in publishing it as-is. Especially given the timing this week. On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Amir Chaudhry wrote: > I'd rather this piece go up as is, than not go up at all. > > I do see Russ' point and I should clarify that for me, the idea of a > 'battle' between Docker and hypervisors is somewhat false (which obviousl= y > affects how I'm approaching this). However, I'm also aware that there ma= y > be many people out there who *do* perceive it that way and without pieces > like this, will simply repeat the narrative they're already hearing. In > that respect, I do think it important that this post go up. > > I look forward to seeing it live. > > Best wishes, > Amir > > On 27 Aug 2014, at 20:43, Anil Madhavapeddy wrote: > > > I like the piece as it stands, as long as it doesn't go on the Xen.org > blog -- it's much more appropriate as an opinion piece on Linux.com. > > > > Many articles will be needed to get the message across, and I'll work > with Amir on capturing his nuance (which is also very valid -- it's a > complex set of tradeoffs we're making here). > > > > But this piece should go live soon during VMWorld, ideally... > > > > -anil > > > > On 27 Aug 2014, at 20:36, Russell Pavlicek > wrote: > > > >> I've done some work with Sarah and Libby to see if the piece can be > reconstructed as requested. After working with this for a while, I think > it falls apart. > >> > >> Talking about people using Docker in VMs before revealing the supposed > death of hypervisors destroys the premise of the piece: the only logical > end point is to assert that the very notion of a "battle" between > hypervisors and containers is false. And that means total rewrite. > >> > >> With the concept of a "battle" gone, the punch of the piece is gone. > An argument piece must be punchy. Without the battle, the piece begins a > descent into clinical logic, which is useless in a screaming crowd. > Without a total rethink and rewrite, the piece is doomed to failure. > >> > >> I don't think the praises of Docker should be moved to the bottom. If > I don't acknowledge the value of Docker early, I will be quickly dismisse= d > as a hypervisor bigot and many people will quit reading before they see > that I > >> understand its value. Also, the best way to put an opponent off > balance is to compliment him or her, and then smack them. > >> > >> I know this piece isn't all that folks want. Maybe I'm not smart > enough to do that, or maybe I just don't have enough time. But I know wh= at > I have successfully done to wake readers up in the past. I'm suggesting = we > go with the attached. If it isn't what we want, I will scrap it and let > someone else do a more appropriate piece. > >> > >> Russ Pavlicek > >> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 > >> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: Amir Chaudhry [amc79@cam.ac.uk] > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 9:50 AM > >> To: Lars Kurth; Russell Pavlicek > >> Cc: Sarah Conway; Libby Clark; George Dunlap; > publicity@lists.xenproject.org list > >> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >> > >> Russell, thanks for wading through my stream of consciousness. I was > worried I'd torpedoed the discussion and that was not my intent. > >> > >> Regarding this post, I can completely understand the need for a 'hold > your horses' position but I think the current post can still be improved = in > that regard. My suggestions are: > >> > >> - The section on the benefits of containerisation can be moved to much > later in the post, in a shorter paragraph. There's no need to start a 'ho= ld > your horses' post by spurring the horses. > >> > >> - The paragraph beginning "According to reports from a couple differen= t > attendees of LinuxCon..." needs to be nearer the top. IMHO this is the me= at > as it describes why Xen matters (and incidentally, is the kind of scenari= o > I alluded to). > >> > >> - The only argument in the piece is about shared kernels. There's > probably more than this which can be pointed out, e.g if one of your > deployments needs an upgraded/different host OS, you're stuck having to > deal with issues on other containers (to keep things in lockstep). > >> > >> - I feel more should be said about Xen/hypervisors before getting to > unikernels. At the moment there's only one paragraph. Unikernels make sen= se > in the context of Xen (especially now that it's working on ARM =E2=80=94 = which > itself is an important point). > >> > >> - (related to above) The section on unikernels needs more of a lead in= . > At the moment it comes across as a non-sequitur. > >> > >> - "Mirage OS from Xen Project" is better as "Mirage OS, incubated at > Xen Project," > >> > >> I'm more than happy to help with this post if you'd like actual edits > and I can clear time this afternoon (UK time). Just invite me to a Google > doc where we can edit. If you'd prefer to go live as is, I understand tha= t > too. > >> > >> Best wishes, > >> Amir > >> > >> > >> On 27 Aug 2014, at 10:12, Lars Kurth wrote: > >> > >>> Given the recent Docker and VMWare hype, which pretty much seems to b= e > about very little =E2=80=93 aka running Docker within VMWare containers a= nd some > tools integration. A concept that both AWS and Google have completed a > while back, I agree with Russell here. I am not sure how effective it wil= l > be, but we should try > >>> Lars > >>> > >>> From: Russell Pavlicek > >>> Date: Wednesday, 27 August 2014 06:01 > >>> To: Sarah Conway , Libby Clark < > lclark@linuxfoundation.org> > >>> Cc: Lars Kurth , George Dunlap < > george.dunlap@citrix.com>, "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" < > publicity@lists.xenproject.org> > >>> Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>> > >>> Sarah/Libby, > >>> > >>> I've attached a slightly modified post. > >>> > >>> I'd rather see this in Linux.com rather than XenProject.org so it > won't be mistaken as an "official" Xen Project position. > >>> > >>> Regarding Amir's comments: > >>> > >>> I've finally had the time to give your comments the consideration the= y > are do. And, while I see your argument and look forward to your > development of the concept into a substantial article somewhere (and I am > sure the XenProject.org blog will be happy to publish that piece when you > have it completed), I don't feel I should severely modify the piece I've > written. > >>> > >>> Amir is rightly concerned that my post will be perceived as a (rather > myopic) official position paper. In fact, it is nothing of the sort. I'= ve > written many such pieces over the years to call out what I perceive as > dangerous errors in a populist "hive mind" position. The purpose of the > piece is to cry, "Whoa!" to a team of horses which are in danger of > inciting an ill-considered stampede. The carefully detailed whitepapers > describing a meticulous counter proposal are still needed, but they will > not be heeded until the crowd in motion slows down enough to read. > >>> > >>> My piece is the cry to slow things down. I look forward to Amir's > piece (and others) which give us a reasoned argument for a better > direction. But those pieces will be ignored and trampled unless we can > first halt the stampede and get people to slow down enough to heed reason= . > >>> > >>> Amir, I have pitched a talk for CPOSC in November about the rise of > the unikernel. I'd be thrilled to see how your workflow justification > matures so I can possibly incorporate elements of your thought into that > talk (with attribution), I believe a talk like that would be an excellen= t > place to introduce a more logical positioning of unikernels. > >>> > >>> Russ Pavlicek > >>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >>> Mobile: +1-301-814-1143 > >>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >>> From: Russell Pavlicek > >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 4:10 PM > >>> To: Sarah Conway; Libby Clark > >>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>> Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>> > >>> Sarah, > >>> > >>> Let me see what I can do this evening on this. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Russ Pavlicek > >>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 > >>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >>> From: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org [ > publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org] on behalf of Sarah Conway [ > sconway@linuxfoundation.org] > >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:48 PM > >>> To: Libby Clark > >>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>> > >>> Hi Russ, > >>> > >>> Do you have a revised, updated blog to share? If so, please email it > so I can review it again. Might want to publish today or tomorrow to catc= h > some of the VMWorld momentum. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Libby Clark < > lclark@linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > >>>> Happy to run on Linux.com if it suits you, Lars. > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>> > >>>>> On Aug 20, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Lars Kurth > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I thought about it and it would be ok on our blog. But we are sort > of preaching to the converted there, so another channel may be better > >>>>> Lars > >>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>> From: Tzach Livyatan [tzach@cloudius-systems.com] > >>>>> Sent: 20 August 2014 10:06 > >>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek > >>>>> Cc: Anil Madhavapeddy; Libby Clark; Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; > publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 5:42 AM, Russell Pavlicek < > russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote: > >>>>> Revised version. I've added Libby (whom I saw in the lobby earlier= ) > and the Publicity list. New title. > >>>>> > >>>>> Lars has indicated he wants this divorced from the Xen Project blog= , > since it has the potential to irritate some people. I'm fine with that; = I > irritated people on my own for years. ;) > >>>>> > >>>>> I have a feeling someone in the 11:15 AM slot tomorrow will make > this piece necessary. > >>>>> > >>>>> Comments? > >>>>> Good post. > >>>>> Just wanted to point a related 3 parts post from the OSv blog > >>>>> http://osv.io/blog/blog/2014/06/19/containers-hypervisors-part-1/ > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Russ Pavlicek > >>>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >>>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >>>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 > >>>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@recoil.org] > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 9:55 AM > >>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek > >>>>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; sconway@linuxfoundation.org sconway@linuxfoundation.org> > >>>>> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>>>> > >>>>> I need a cup of tea now... > >>>>> > >>>>> On 19 Aug 2014, at 08:52, Russell Pavlicek < > russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Splendid thank you! > >>>>> > >>>>> And as to the aggressive tone: welcome to America! ;) > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my Android phone using TouchDown (www.nitrodesk.com< > http://www.nitrodesk.com/>) > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@recoil.org] > >>>>> Received: Tuesday, 19 Aug 2014, 8:37AM > >>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek [russell.pavlicek@citrix.com russell.pavlicek@citrix.com>] > >>>>> CC: Lars Kurth [lars.kurth@citrix.com= ]; > George Dunlap [George.Dunlap@citrix.com]= ; > sconway@linuxfoundation.org [ > sconway@linuxfoundation.org] > >>>>> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>>>> > >>>>> It's an aggressively toned article, but not offensively so. I like > it... > >>>>> > >>>>> A couple of minor tweaks: > >>>>> > >>>>>> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell scripts, and no > massive library of utilities to take up room =E2=80=93 or to employ in so= me > nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the application run, > and precious little for a malefactor to leverage. It's not the =E2=80=9Ce= nd-all > be-all=E2=80=9D of security, but it is certainly facing the right directi= on. > >>>>> > >>>>> could have a note on type safety added: > >>>>> > >>>>> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell scripts, and no > massive library of utilities to take up room =E2=80=93 or to employ in so= me > nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the application run, > and precious little for a malefactor to leverage. All the code that is > present is statically type-safe, from the application stack all the way > down to the device drivers themselves. It's not the =E2=80=9Cend-all be-a= ll=E2=80=9D of > security, but it is certainly facing the right direction. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look back at the > unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will be a growi= ng > forest of unikernel-type systems. Frankly, I can't wait to see what will > develop in this space. > >>>>> > >>>>> Could note that unikernels and containers may well converge: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look back at the > unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will be a growi= ng > forest of unikernel-type systems. They can be viewed as the natural > evolution of Linux containers - maintaining their packaging and deploymen= t > benefits, but adding much more specialization into the mix to reduce > resource wastage and external attack surface. > >>>>> > >>>>> -a > >>>>> > >>>>>> On 19 Aug 2014, at 07:24, Russell Pavlicek < > russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Folks, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I woke up this morning with this going through my head. It was > pretty much written in one shot (which I never do), so it may take some > polishing, but I think the thoughts are all there. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I see James Bottomley on the Keynote list for Wednesday morning an= d > I anticipate another round of the "Docker has won" message that James has > become famous for. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I'd like your feedback. Ideally, I'd like to propose this for > Linux.com in order to temper the flawed notion of > Docker as the panacea of virtualuzation, hopefully before the media swell > around his prognostications dies down. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> What do you think? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Russ Pavlicek > >>>>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >>>>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >>>>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 > >>>>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >>>>>> beginning.odt> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Publicity mailing list > >>>>> Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > > >>>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Publicity mailing list > >>>> Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Sarah Conway > >>> PR Manager > >>> The Linux Foundation > >>> sconway@linuxfoundation.org > >>> (978) 578-5300 Cell > >>> Skype: sarah.k.conway > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Publicity mailing list > >>> Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > >> > >> beginning-V4.odt>_______________________________________________ > >> Publicity mailing list > >> Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > > > > --=20 Digital Content Editor The Linux Foundation Linux.com @LibbyMClark --047d7b3a838eeaead40501a387c7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks everyone for your input. I'm prepping Russ'= s latest revision for publication on Linux.com tomorrow (Thursday). I agree= that it's too good to scrap, and there's value in publishing it as= -is. Especially given the timing this week.=C2=A0


On Wed, Aug 2= 7, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Amir Chaudhry <amc79@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
=
I'd rather this piece go up as is, than not go up at all.

I do see Russ' point and I should clarify that for me, the idea of a &#= 39;battle' between Docker and hypervisors is somewhat false (which obvi= ously affects how I'm approaching this).=C2=A0 However, I'm also aw= are that there may be many people out there who *do* perceive it that way a= nd without pieces like this, will simply repeat the narrative they're a= lready hearing.=C2=A0 In that respect, I do think it important that this po= st go up.

I look forward to seeing it live.

Best wishes,
Amir

On 27 Aug 2014, at 20:43, Anil Madhavapeddy <anil@recoil.org> wrote:

> I like the piece as it stands, as long as it doesn't go on the Xen= .org blog -- it's much more appropriate as an opinion piece on Linux.co= m.
>
> Many articles will be needed to get the message across, and I'll w= ork with Amir on capturing his nuance (which is also very valid -- it's= a complex set of tradeoffs we're making here).
>
> But this piece should go live soon during VMWorld, ideally...
>
> -anil
>
> On 27 Aug 2014, at 20:36, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote:
>
>> I've done some work with Sarah and Libby to see if the piece c= an be reconstructed as requested.=C2=A0 After working with this for a while= , I think it falls apart.
>>
>> Talking about people using Docker in VMs before revealing the supp= osed death of hypervisors destroys the premise of the piece: the only logic= al end point is to assert that the very notion of a "battle" betw= een hypervisors and containers is false.=C2=A0 And that means total rewrite= .
>>
>> With the concept of a "battle" gone, the punch of the pi= ece is gone.=C2=A0 An argument piece must be punchy. Without the battle, th= e piece begins a descent into clinical logic, which is useless in a screami= ng crowd.=C2=A0 Without a total rethink and rewrite, the piece is doomed to= failure.
>>
>> I don't think the praises of Docker should be moved to the bot= tom.=C2=A0 If I don't acknowledge the value of Docker early, I will be = quickly dismissed as a hypervisor bigot and many people will quit reading b= efore they see that I
>> understand its value.=C2=A0 Also, the best way to put an opponent = off balance is to compliment him or her, and then smack them.
>>
>> I know this piece isn't all that folks want.=C2=A0 Maybe I'= ;m not smart enough to do that, or maybe I just don't have enough time.= =C2=A0 But I know what I have successfully done to wake readers up in the p= ast.=C2=A0 I'm suggesting we go with the attached.=C2=A0 If it isn'= t what we want, I will scrap it and let someone else do a more appropriate = piece.
>>
>> Russ Pavlicek
>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
>> Mobile: += 1-240-397-0199
>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Amir Chaudhry [amc79@cam.= ac.uk]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 9:50 AM
>> To: Lars Kurth; Russell Pavlicek
>> Cc: Sarah Conway; Libby Clark; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org list
>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels >>
>> Russell, thanks for wading through my stream of consciousness.=C2= =A0 I was worried I'd torpedoed the discussion and that was not my inte= nt.
>>
>> Regarding this post, I can completely understand the need for a &#= 39;hold your horses' position but I think the current post can still be= improved in that regard.=C2=A0 My suggestions are:
>>
>> - The section on the benefits of containerisation can be moved to = much later in the post, in a shorter paragraph. There's no need to star= t a 'hold your horses' post by spurring the horses.
>>
>> - The paragraph beginning "According to reports from a couple= different attendees of LinuxCon..." needs to be nearer the top. IMHO = this is the meat as it describes why Xen matters (and incidentally, is the = kind of scenario I alluded to).
>>
>> - The only argument in the piece is about shared kernels. There= 9;s probably more than this which can be pointed out, e.g if one of your de= ployments needs an upgraded/different host OS, you're stuck having to d= eal with issues on other containers (to keep things in lockstep).
>>
>> - I feel more should be said about Xen/hypervisors before getting = to unikernels. At the moment there's only one paragraph. Unikernels mak= e sense in the context of Xen (especially now that it's working on ARM = =E2=80=94 which itself is an important point).
>>
>> - (related to above) The section on unikernels needs more of a lea= d in. At the moment it comes across as a non-sequitur.
>>
>> - "Mirage OS from Xen Project" is better as "Mirage= OS, incubated at Xen Project,"
>>
>> I'm more than happy to help with this post if you'd like a= ctual edits and I can clear time this afternoon (UK time). Just invite me t= o a Google doc where we can edit. If you'd prefer to go live as is, I u= nderstand that too.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Amir
>>
>>
>> On 27 Aug 2014, at 10:12, Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@citrix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Given the recent Docker and VMWare hype, which pretty much see= ms to be about very little =E2=80=93 aka running Docker within VMWare conta= iners and some tools integration. A concept that both AWS and Google have c= ompleted a while back, I agree with Russell here. I am not sure how effecti= ve it will be, but we should try
>>> Lars
>>>
>>> From: Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com>
>>> Date: Wednesday, 27 August 2014 06:01
>>> To: Sarah Conway <sconway@linuxfoundation.org>, Libby Clark <lclark@linuxfoundation.org>
>>> Cc: Lars Kurth <la= rs.kurth@citrix.com>, George Dunlap <george.dunlap@citrix.com>, "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" <= ;publicity@lists.xenproje= ct.org>
>>> Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernel= s
>>>
>>> Sarah/Libby,
>>>
>>> I've attached a slightly modified post.
>>>
>>> I'd rather see this in Linux.com rather than XenProject.or= g so it won't be mistaken as an "official" Xen Project positi= on.
>>>
>>> Regarding Amir's comments:
>>>
>>> I've finally had the time to give your comments the consid= eration they are do.=C2=A0 And, while I see your argument and look forward = to your development of the concept into a substantial article somewhere (an= d I am sure the XenProject.org blog will be happy to publish that piece whe= n you have it completed), I don't feel I should severely modify the pie= ce I've written.
>>>
>>> Amir is rightly concerned that my post will be perceived as a = (rather myopic) official position paper.=C2=A0 In fact, it is nothing of th= e sort.=C2=A0 I've written many such pieces over the years to call out = what I perceive as dangerous errors in a populist "hive mind" pos= ition.=C2=A0 The purpose of the piece is to cry, "Whoa!" to a tea= m of horses which are in danger of inciting an ill-considered stampede.=C2= =A0 The carefully detailed whitepapers describing a meticulous counter prop= osal are still needed, but they will not be heeded until the crowd in motio= n slows down enough to read.
>>>
>>> My piece is the cry to slow things down.=C2=A0 I look forward = to Amir's piece (and others) which give us a reasoned argument for a be= tter direction.=C2=A0 But those pieces will be ignored and trampled unless = we can first halt the stampede and get people to slow down enough to heed r= eason.
>>>
>>> Amir, I have pitched a talk for CPOSC in November about the ri= se of the unikernel. I'd be thrilled to see how your workflow justifica= tion matures so I can possibly incorporate elements of your thought into th= at talk (with attribution),=C2=A0 I believe a talk like that would be an ex= cellent place to introduce a more logical positioning of unikernels.
>>>
>>> Russ Pavlicek
>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
>>> Mobile: +1-301-814-1143
>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
>>> From: Russell Pavlicek
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 4:10 PM
>>> To: Sarah Conway; Libby Clark
>>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org
>>> Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernel= s
>>>
>>> Sarah,
>>>
>>> Let me see what I can do this evening on this.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Russ Pavlicek
>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
>>> From: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org [publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org] on= behalf of Sarah Conway [sco= nway@linuxfoundation.org]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:48 PM
>>> To: Libby Clark
>>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernel= s
>>>
>>> Hi Russ,
>>>
>>> Do you have a revised, updated blog to share? If so, please em= ail it so I can review it again. Might want to publish today or tomorrow to= catch some of the VMWorld momentum.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Libby Clark <lclark@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:<= br> >>>> Happy to run on Linux.com if it suits you, Lars.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 20, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@citrix.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought about it and it would be ok on our blog. But= we are sort of preaching to the converted there, so another channel may be= better
>>>>> Lars
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> From: Tzach Livyatan [tzach@cloudius-systems.com]
>>>>> Sent: 20 August 2014 10:06
>>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek
>>>>> Cc: Anil Madhavapeddy; Libby Clark; Lars Kurth; George= Dunlap; publicity@lists.= xenproject.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and U= nikernels
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 5:42 AM, Russell Pavlicek <= russell.pavlicek@citrix.com<= /a><mailto:russell.pavlic= ek@citrix.com>> wrote:
>>>>> Revised version.=C2=A0 I've added Libby (whom I sa= w in the lobby earlier) and the Publicity list.=C2=A0 New title.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lars has indicated he wants this divorced from the Xen= Project blog, since it has the potential to irritate some people.=C2=A0 I&= #39;m fine with that; I irritated people on my own for years.=C2=A0 ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a feeling someone in the 11:15 AM slot tomorrow= will make this piece necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Comments?
>>>>> Good post.
>>>>> Just wanted to point a related 3 parts post from the O= Sv blog
>>>>> http://osv.io/blog/blog/2014/06/1= 9/containers-hypervisors-part-1/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Russ Pavlicek
>>>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>>>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327<tel:%2B1-301-829-5327>
>>>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199<tel:%2B1-240-397-0199>
>>>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894<tel:%2B44%201223%20852%20894>= ;
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@recoil.org<mailto:anil= @recoil.org>]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 9:55 AM
>>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek
>>>>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; sconway@linuxfoundation.org<mailto:sconway@linuxfoundation.org>=
>>>>> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels >>>>>
>>>>> I need a cup of tea now...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 19 Aug 2014, at 08:52, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com<= mailto:russell.pavlicek@citr= ix.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Splendid thank you!
>>>>>
>>>>> And as to the aggressive tone: welcome to America! ;)<= br> >>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my Android phone using TouchDown (www.nitrodesk.com<http://www.nitrodesk.com= />)
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@recoil.org<mailto:anil= @recoil.org>]
>>>>> Received: Tuesday, 19 Aug 2014, 8:37AM
>>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek [russell.pavlicek@citrix.com<mailto:russell.pavlicek@citrix.com>]
>>>>> CC: Lars Kurth [lars.kurth@citrix.com<mailto:lars.kurth@citrix.com>]; George Dunlap [George.Dunlap@citrix.com<mailto:George.Dunlap@citrix.com>]; sconway@linuxfoundation.org<mail= to:sconway@linuxfoundation.o= rg> [sconway@linuxfou= ndation.org<mailto:sc= onway@linuxfoundation.org>]
>>>>> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels >>>>>
>>>>> It's an aggressively toned article, but not offens= ively so.=C2=A0 I like it...
>>>>>
>>>>> A couple of minor tweaks:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell = scripts, and no massive library of utilities to take up room =E2=80=93 or t= o employ in some nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the a= pplication run, and precious little for a malefactor to leverage. It's = not the =E2=80=9Cend-all be-all=E2=80=9D of security, but it is certainly f= acing the right direction.
>>>>>
>>>>> could have a note on type safety added:
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell scri= pts, and no massive library of utilities to take up room =E2=80=93 or to em= ploy in some nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the appli= cation run, and precious little for a malefactor to leverage.=C2=A0 All the= code that is present is statically type-safe, from the application stack a= ll the way down to the device drivers themselves. It's not the =E2=80= =9Cend-all be-all=E2=80=9D of security, but it is certainly facing the righ= t direction.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look = back at the unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will = be a growing forest of unikernel-type systems. Frankly, I can't wait to= see what will develop in this space.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could note that unikernels and containers may well con= verge:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look = back at the unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will = be a growing forest of unikernel-type systems. They can be viewed as the na= tural evolution of Linux containers - maintaining their packaging and deplo= yment benefits, but adding much more specialization into the mix to reduce = resource wastage and external attack surface.
>>>>>
>>>>> -a
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19 Aug 2014, at 07:24, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com= <mailto:russell.pavlicek@= citrix.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Folks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I woke up this morning with this going through my = head.=C2=A0 It was pretty much written in one shot (which I never do), so i= t may take some polishing, but I think the thoughts are all there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see James Bottomley on the Keynote list for Wedn= esday morning and I anticipate another round of the "Docker has won&qu= ot; message that James has become famous for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like your feedback.=C2=A0 Ideally, I'd= like to propose this for Linux.com<http://Linux.com> in order to temper the flawed notion o= f Docker as the panacea of virtualuzation, hopefully before the media swell= around his prognostications dies down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Russ Pavlicek
>>>>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>>>>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327<tel:%2B1-301-829-5= 327>
>>>>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199<tel:%2B1-240-397-0199&g= t;
>>>>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894<tel:%2B44%201223%2085= 2%20894>
>>>>>> <Docker has not won the war-the battle is just = beginning.odt><Docker has not won the war-the battle is just beginnin= g.pdf>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Publicity mailing list
>>>>> Publ= icity@lists.xenproject.org<mailto:Publicity@lists.xenproject.org>
>>>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/= mailman/listinfo/publicity
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Publicity mailing list
>>>> Publicit= y@lists.xenproject.org
>>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mail= man/listinfo/publicity
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sarah Conway
>>> PR Manager
>>> The Linux Foundation
>>> sconway@linuxfo= undation.org
>>> (978) 578-5300=C2=A0 Cell
>>> Skype:=C2=A0 sarah.k.conway
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Publicity mailing list
>>> Publicity@li= sts.xenproject.org
>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/= listinfo/publicity
>>
>> <Docker has not won the war-the battle is just beginning-V4.odt= >_______________________________________________
>> Publicity mailing list
>> Publicity@lists.= xenproject.org
>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/list= info/publicity
>




--
Digital Content Editor
The Linux Foundation
Linux.com=C2= =A0
--047d7b3a838eeaead40501a387c7-- --===============1690430836433031630== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity --===============1690430836433031630==-- From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Wed Sep 03 09:08:48 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:08:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XP6YZ-0004rB-PG; Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:08:47 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta4.messagelabs.com ([85.158.143.247]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XN2XR-0002Fj-MN for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2014 16:27:06 +0000 Received: from [85.158.143.35:17898] by server-2.bemta-4.messagelabs.com id 16/00-04525-8585FF35; Thu, 28 Aug 2014 16:27:04 +0000 X-Env-Sender: lclark@linuxfoundation.org X-Msg-Ref: server-3.tower-21.messagelabs.com!1409243222!11899463!1 X-Originating-IP: [74.125.82.52] X-SpamReason: No, hits=1.2 required=7.0 tests=BODY_RANDOM_LONG, HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,RCVD_BY_IP X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 27882 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2014 16:27:02 -0000 Received: from mail-wg0-f52.google.com (HELO mail-wg0-f52.google.com) (74.125.82.52) by server-3.tower-21.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 28 Aug 2014 16:27:02 -0000 Received: by mail-wg0-f52.google.com with SMTP id m15so976005wgh.23 for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2014 09:27:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linuxfoundation.org; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=hXUIa8qNAnTb22yfZeZdQZnUYVRKG6ZA4mAClbgv5ks=; b=WC3qu9p8tmRuDJh3JGrlcU2NUwCeoYrDhxJV7EV+37ZBHtdP9+tIyBeu8BcI+HEAlr 94LhVrO+ofwo7apEriych4pY/uf8/VVdEDLNIEgMGf1zcvE5XNXOMCH9JA3gZbX6uQ5e V6NpiEgIzZpqKd0/tuKyBQTQ/RSZiV7eNQf1Y= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=hXUIa8qNAnTb22yfZeZdQZnUYVRKG6ZA4mAClbgv5ks=; b=eOrrtehWXKKzL1P73NNfK5N/oQh+sII4OQ9ZO/OgR8TYh2O3CjJ+ZOmMSTr4LYZqIv am8Ba5QzbSe3A8HcY7ELwVh8IrjOiDUy+34iuqY4ACE8TT0WaVbeCAxAzLDzEJKcBvxt FWOFLywg3SFkTV/zCyW27USwlZ/BGYxMHV9VV8NVkNv/aK3hBbIp8a+T/8Wg0fUd6S8o blcLF5InAADTUiiYCG9CteEiwX3wHCKq5eGnZxkTtVaC62+vvNa4qitnYxixKDHJU4Xp nBp4w+NQ9AX+Amg2VE0Rm/PTh8g6SZGI4xWipmbKFXOyPg6+U1Bgobc0MIYL+Rlr7xNY aHMg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlYQmDATjgYawruRH85z/fpZQzgqDmRqCxPxX5WOAiHmll3PnNYfRrE4bXfEZ1+saLstAO5 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.78.243 with SMTP id e19mr4551114wjx.119.1409243222002; Thu, 28 Aug 2014 09:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.75.138 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Aug 2014 09:27:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2A12092B-929C-4C86-B1FA-8EE55A9854DB@cam.ac.uk> References: <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273C98B@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <833138C1-BFAB-480D-B138-D500EF005AEF@recoil.org> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273CC5D@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273D7D5@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <2ECF831C-2188-4702-B77B-39F31EA1D3A0@linuxfoundation.org> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276C7D7@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276D575@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <1A5A1F00-05E8-4C83-B388-A67D5D69C4B9@cam.ac.uk> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276E461@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <2A12092B-929C-4C86-B1FA-8EE55A9854DB@cam.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 09:27:01 -0700 Message-ID: From: Libby Clark To: Russell Pavlicek , Sarah Conway X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:08:46 +0000 Cc: Lars Kurth , George Dunlap , "publicity@lists.xenproject.org list" Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8718386056037302007==" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org --===============8718386056037302007== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bfcf01ca668000501b301df --047d7bfcf01ca668000501b301df Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good morning all. Russell's article is live today on Linux.com and we'll promote it soon on LF social channels. Thanks again for the contribution! http://www.linux.com/news/enterprise/cloud-computing/785769-containers-vs-h= ypervisors-the-battle-has-just-begun On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Amir Chaudhry wrote: > I'd rather this piece go up as is, than not go up at all. > > I do see Russ' point and I should clarify that for me, the idea of a > 'battle' between Docker and hypervisors is somewhat false (which obviousl= y > affects how I'm approaching this). However, I'm also aware that there ma= y > be many people out there who *do* perceive it that way and without pieces > like this, will simply repeat the narrative they're already hearing. In > that respect, I do think it important that this post go up. > > I look forward to seeing it live. > > Best wishes, > Amir > > On 27 Aug 2014, at 20:43, Anil Madhavapeddy wrote: > > > I like the piece as it stands, as long as it doesn't go on the Xen.org > blog -- it's much more appropriate as an opinion piece on Linux.com. > > > > Many articles will be needed to get the message across, and I'll work > with Amir on capturing his nuance (which is also very valid -- it's a > complex set of tradeoffs we're making here). > > > > But this piece should go live soon during VMWorld, ideally... > > > > -anil > > > > On 27 Aug 2014, at 20:36, Russell Pavlicek > wrote: > > > >> I've done some work with Sarah and Libby to see if the piece can be > reconstructed as requested. After working with this for a while, I think > it falls apart. > >> > >> Talking about people using Docker in VMs before revealing the supposed > death of hypervisors destroys the premise of the piece: the only logical > end point is to assert that the very notion of a "battle" between > hypervisors and containers is false. And that means total rewrite. > >> > >> With the concept of a "battle" gone, the punch of the piece is gone. > An argument piece must be punchy. Without the battle, the piece begins a > descent into clinical logic, which is useless in a screaming crowd. > Without a total rethink and rewrite, the piece is doomed to failure. > >> > >> I don't think the praises of Docker should be moved to the bottom. If > I don't acknowledge the value of Docker early, I will be quickly dismisse= d > as a hypervisor bigot and many people will quit reading before they see > that I > >> understand its value. Also, the best way to put an opponent off > balance is to compliment him or her, and then smack them. > >> > >> I know this piece isn't all that folks want. Maybe I'm not smart > enough to do that, or maybe I just don't have enough time. But I know wh= at > I have successfully done to wake readers up in the past. I'm suggesting = we > go with the attached. If it isn't what we want, I will scrap it and let > someone else do a more appropriate piece. > >> > >> Russ Pavlicek > >> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 > >> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: Amir Chaudhry [amc79@cam.ac.uk] > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 9:50 AM > >> To: Lars Kurth; Russell Pavlicek > >> Cc: Sarah Conway; Libby Clark; George Dunlap; > publicity@lists.xenproject.org list > >> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >> > >> Russell, thanks for wading through my stream of consciousness. I was > worried I'd torpedoed the discussion and that was not my intent. > >> > >> Regarding this post, I can completely understand the need for a 'hold > your horses' position but I think the current post can still be improved = in > that regard. My suggestions are: > >> > >> - The section on the benefits of containerisation can be moved to much > later in the post, in a shorter paragraph. There's no need to start a 'ho= ld > your horses' post by spurring the horses. > >> > >> - The paragraph beginning "According to reports from a couple differen= t > attendees of LinuxCon..." needs to be nearer the top. IMHO this is the me= at > as it describes why Xen matters (and incidentally, is the kind of scenari= o > I alluded to). > >> > >> - The only argument in the piece is about shared kernels. There's > probably more than this which can be pointed out, e.g if one of your > deployments needs an upgraded/different host OS, you're stuck having to > deal with issues on other containers (to keep things in lockstep). > >> > >> - I feel more should be said about Xen/hypervisors before getting to > unikernels. At the moment there's only one paragraph. Unikernels make sen= se > in the context of Xen (especially now that it's working on ARM =E2=80=94 = which > itself is an important point). > >> > >> - (related to above) The section on unikernels needs more of a lead in= . > At the moment it comes across as a non-sequitur. > >> > >> - "Mirage OS from Xen Project" is better as "Mirage OS, incubated at > Xen Project," > >> > >> I'm more than happy to help with this post if you'd like actual edits > and I can clear time this afternoon (UK time). Just invite me to a Google > doc where we can edit. If you'd prefer to go live as is, I understand tha= t > too. > >> > >> Best wishes, > >> Amir > >> > >> > >> On 27 Aug 2014, at 10:12, Lars Kurth wrote: > >> > >>> Given the recent Docker and VMWare hype, which pretty much seems to b= e > about very little =E2=80=93 aka running Docker within VMWare containers a= nd some > tools integration. A concept that both AWS and Google have completed a > while back, I agree with Russell here. I am not sure how effective it wil= l > be, but we should try > >>> Lars > >>> > >>> From: Russell Pavlicek > >>> Date: Wednesday, 27 August 2014 06:01 > >>> To: Sarah Conway , Libby Clark < > lclark@linuxfoundation.org> > >>> Cc: Lars Kurth , George Dunlap < > george.dunlap@citrix.com>, "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" < > publicity@lists.xenproject.org> > >>> Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>> > >>> Sarah/Libby, > >>> > >>> I've attached a slightly modified post. > >>> > >>> I'd rather see this in Linux.com rather than XenProject.org so it > won't be mistaken as an "official" Xen Project position. > >>> > >>> Regarding Amir's comments: > >>> > >>> I've finally had the time to give your comments the consideration the= y > are do. And, while I see your argument and look forward to your > development of the concept into a substantial article somewhere (and I am > sure the XenProject.org blog will be happy to publish that piece when you > have it completed), I don't feel I should severely modify the piece I've > written. > >>> > >>> Amir is rightly concerned that my post will be perceived as a (rather > myopic) official position paper. In fact, it is nothing of the sort. I'= ve > written many such pieces over the years to call out what I perceive as > dangerous errors in a populist "hive mind" position. The purpose of the > piece is to cry, "Whoa!" to a team of horses which are in danger of > inciting an ill-considered stampede. The carefully detailed whitepapers > describing a meticulous counter proposal are still needed, but they will > not be heeded until the crowd in motion slows down enough to read. > >>> > >>> My piece is the cry to slow things down. I look forward to Amir's > piece (and others) which give us a reasoned argument for a better > direction. But those pieces will be ignored and trampled unless we can > first halt the stampede and get people to slow down enough to heed reason= . > >>> > >>> Amir, I have pitched a talk for CPOSC in November about the rise of > the unikernel. I'd be thrilled to see how your workflow justification > matures so I can possibly incorporate elements of your thought into that > talk (with attribution), I believe a talk like that would be an excellen= t > place to introduce a more logical positioning of unikernels. > >>> > >>> Russ Pavlicek > >>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >>> Mobile: +1-301-814-1143 > >>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >>> From: Russell Pavlicek > >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 4:10 PM > >>> To: Sarah Conway; Libby Clark > >>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>> Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>> > >>> Sarah, > >>> > >>> Let me see what I can do this evening on this. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Russ Pavlicek > >>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 > >>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >>> From: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org [ > publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org] on behalf of Sarah Conway [ > sconway@linuxfoundation.org] > >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:48 PM > >>> To: Libby Clark > >>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>> > >>> Hi Russ, > >>> > >>> Do you have a revised, updated blog to share? If so, please email it > so I can review it again. Might want to publish today or tomorrow to catc= h > some of the VMWorld momentum. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Libby Clark < > lclark@linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > >>>> Happy to run on Linux.com if it suits you, Lars. > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>> > >>>>> On Aug 20, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Lars Kurth > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I thought about it and it would be ok on our blog. But we are sort > of preaching to the converted there, so another channel may be better > >>>>> Lars > >>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>> From: Tzach Livyatan [tzach@cloudius-systems.com] > >>>>> Sent: 20 August 2014 10:06 > >>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek > >>>>> Cc: Anil Madhavapeddy; Libby Clark; Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; > publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 5:42 AM, Russell Pavlicek < > russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote: > >>>>> Revised version. I've added Libby (whom I saw in the lobby earlier= ) > and the Publicity list. New title. > >>>>> > >>>>> Lars has indicated he wants this divorced from the Xen Project blog= , > since it has the potential to irritate some people. I'm fine with that; = I > irritated people on my own for years. ;) > >>>>> > >>>>> I have a feeling someone in the 11:15 AM slot tomorrow will make > this piece necessary. > >>>>> > >>>>> Comments? > >>>>> Good post. > >>>>> Just wanted to point a related 3 parts post from the OSv blog > >>>>> http://osv.io/blog/blog/2014/06/19/containers-hypervisors-part-1/ > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Russ Pavlicek > >>>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >>>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >>>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 > >>>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@recoil.org] > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 9:55 AM > >>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek > >>>>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; sconway@linuxfoundation.org sconway@linuxfoundation.org> > >>>>> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>>>> > >>>>> I need a cup of tea now... > >>>>> > >>>>> On 19 Aug 2014, at 08:52, Russell Pavlicek < > russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Splendid thank you! > >>>>> > >>>>> And as to the aggressive tone: welcome to America! ;) > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my Android phone using TouchDown (www.nitrodesk.com< > http://www.nitrodesk.com/>) > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@recoil.org] > >>>>> Received: Tuesday, 19 Aug 2014, 8:37AM > >>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek [russell.pavlicek@citrix.com russell.pavlicek@citrix.com>] > >>>>> CC: Lars Kurth [lars.kurth@citrix.com= ]; > George Dunlap [George.Dunlap@citrix.com]= ; > sconway@linuxfoundation.org [ > sconway@linuxfoundation.org] > >>>>> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>>>> > >>>>> It's an aggressively toned article, but not offensively so. I like > it... > >>>>> > >>>>> A couple of minor tweaks: > >>>>> > >>>>>> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell scripts, and no > massive library of utilities to take up room =E2=80=93 or to employ in so= me > nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the application run, > and precious little for a malefactor to leverage. It's not the =E2=80=9Ce= nd-all > be-all=E2=80=9D of security, but it is certainly facing the right directi= on. > >>>>> > >>>>> could have a note on type safety added: > >>>>> > >>>>> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell scripts, and no > massive library of utilities to take up room =E2=80=93 or to employ in so= me > nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the application run, > and precious little for a malefactor to leverage. All the code that is > present is statically type-safe, from the application stack all the way > down to the device drivers themselves. It's not the =E2=80=9Cend-all be-a= ll=E2=80=9D of > security, but it is certainly facing the right direction. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look back at the > unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will be a growi= ng > forest of unikernel-type systems. Frankly, I can't wait to see what will > develop in this space. > >>>>> > >>>>> Could note that unikernels and containers may well converge: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look back at the > unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will be a growi= ng > forest of unikernel-type systems. They can be viewed as the natural > evolution of Linux containers - maintaining their packaging and deploymen= t > benefits, but adding much more specialization into the mix to reduce > resource wastage and external attack surface. > >>>>> > >>>>> -a > >>>>> > >>>>>> On 19 Aug 2014, at 07:24, Russell Pavlicek < > russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Folks, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I woke up this morning with this going through my head. It was > pretty much written in one shot (which I never do), so it may take some > polishing, but I think the thoughts are all there. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I see James Bottomley on the Keynote list for Wednesday morning an= d > I anticipate another round of the "Docker has won" message that James has > become famous for. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I'd like your feedback. Ideally, I'd like to propose this for > Linux.com in order to temper the flawed notion of > Docker as the panacea of virtualuzation, hopefully before the media swell > around his prognostications dies down. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> What do you think? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Russ Pavlicek > >>>>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >>>>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >>>>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 > >>>>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >>>>>> beginning.odt> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Publicity mailing list > >>>>> Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > > >>>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Publicity mailing list > >>>> Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Sarah Conway > >>> PR Manager > >>> The Linux Foundation > >>> sconway@linuxfoundation.org > >>> (978) 578-5300 Cell > >>> Skype: sarah.k.conway > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Publicity mailing list > >>> Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > >> > >> beginning-V4.odt>_______________________________________________ > >> Publicity mailing list > >> Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > > > > --=20 Digital Content Editor The Linux Foundation Linux.com @LibbyMClark --047d7bfcf01ca668000501b301df Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good morning all. Russell's article is live today on L= inux.com and we'll promote it soon on LF social channels. Thanks again = for the contribution!




On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Amir Chaudhry= <amc79@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
I'd rather this piece go up as is, than = not go up at all.

I do see Russ' point and I should clarify that for me, the idea of a &#= 39;battle' between Docker and hypervisors is somewhat false (which obvi= ously affects how I'm approaching this).=C2=A0 However, I'm also aw= are that there may be many people out there who *do* perceive it that way a= nd without pieces like this, will simply repeat the narrative they're a= lready hearing.=C2=A0 In that respect, I do think it important that this po= st go up.

I look forward to seeing it live.

Best wishes,
Amir

On 27 Aug 2014, at 20:43, Anil Madhavapeddy <anil@recoil.org> wrote:

> I like the piece as it stands, as long as it doesn't go on the Xen= .org blog -- it's much more appropriate as an opinion piece on Linux.co= m.
>
> Many articles will be needed to get the message across, and I'll w= ork with Amir on capturing his nuance (which is also very valid -- it's= a complex set of tradeoffs we're making here).
>
> But this piece should go live soon during VMWorld, ideally...
>
> -anil
>
> On 27 Aug 2014, at 20:36, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote:
>
>> I've done some work with Sarah and Libby to see if the piece c= an be reconstructed as requested.=C2=A0 After working with this for a while= , I think it falls apart.
>>
>> Talking about people using Docker in VMs before revealing the supp= osed death of hypervisors destroys the premise of the piece: the only logic= al end point is to assert that the very notion of a "battle" betw= een hypervisors and containers is false.=C2=A0 And that means total rewrite= .
>>
>> With the concept of a "battle" gone, the punch of the pi= ece is gone.=C2=A0 An argument piece must be punchy. Without the battle, th= e piece begins a descent into clinical logic, which is useless in a screami= ng crowd.=C2=A0 Without a total rethink and rewrite, the piece is doomed to= failure.
>>
>> I don't think the praises of Docker should be moved to the bot= tom.=C2=A0 If I don't acknowledge the value of Docker early, I will be = quickly dismissed as a hypervisor bigot and many people will quit reading b= efore they see that I
>> understand its value.=C2=A0 Also, the best way to put an opponent = off balance is to compliment him or her, and then smack them.
>>
>> I know this piece isn't all that folks want.=C2=A0 Maybe I'= ;m not smart enough to do that, or maybe I just don't have enough time.= =C2=A0 But I know what I have successfully done to wake readers up in the p= ast.=C2=A0 I'm suggesting we go with the attached.=C2=A0 If it isn'= t what we want, I will scrap it and let someone else do a more appropriate = piece.
>>
>> Russ Pavlicek
>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
>> Mobile: += 1-240-397-0199
>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Amir Chaudhry [amc79@cam.= ac.uk]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 9:50 AM
>> To: Lars Kurth; Russell Pavlicek
>> Cc: Sarah Conway; Libby Clark; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org list
>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels >>
>> Russell, thanks for wading through my stream of consciousness.=C2= =A0 I was worried I'd torpedoed the discussion and that was not my inte= nt.
>>
>> Regarding this post, I can completely understand the need for a &#= 39;hold your horses' position but I think the current post can still be= improved in that regard.=C2=A0 My suggestions are:
>>
>> - The section on the benefits of containerisation can be moved to = much later in the post, in a shorter paragraph. There's no need to star= t a 'hold your horses' post by spurring the horses.
>>
>> - The paragraph beginning "According to reports from a couple= different attendees of LinuxCon..." needs to be nearer the top. IMHO = this is the meat as it describes why Xen matters (and incidentally, is the = kind of scenario I alluded to).
>>
>> - The only argument in the piece is about shared kernels. There= 9;s probably more than this which can be pointed out, e.g if one of your de= ployments needs an upgraded/different host OS, you're stuck having to d= eal with issues on other containers (to keep things in lockstep).
>>
>> - I feel more should be said about Xen/hypervisors before getting = to unikernels. At the moment there's only one paragraph. Unikernels mak= e sense in the context of Xen (especially now that it's working on ARM = =E2=80=94 which itself is an important point).
>>
>> - (related to above) The section on unikernels needs more of a lea= d in. At the moment it comes across as a non-sequitur.
>>
>> - "Mirage OS from Xen Project" is better as "Mirage= OS, incubated at Xen Project,"
>>
>> I'm more than happy to help with this post if you'd like a= ctual edits and I can clear time this afternoon (UK time). Just invite me t= o a Google doc where we can edit. If you'd prefer to go live as is, I u= nderstand that too.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Amir
>>
>>
>> On 27 Aug 2014, at 10:12, Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@citrix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Given the recent Docker and VMWare hype, which pretty much see= ms to be about very little =E2=80=93 aka running Docker within VMWare conta= iners and some tools integration. A concept that both AWS and Google have c= ompleted a while back, I agree with Russell here. I am not sure how effecti= ve it will be, but we should try
>>> Lars
>>>
>>> From: Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com>
>>> Date: Wednesday, 27 August 2014 06:01
>>> To: Sarah Conway <sconway@linuxfoundation.org>, Libby Clark <lclark@linuxfoundation.org>
>>> Cc: Lars Kurth <la= rs.kurth@citrix.com>, George Dunlap <george.dunlap@citrix.com>, "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" <= ;publicity@lists.xenproje= ct.org>
>>> Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernel= s
>>>
>>> Sarah/Libby,
>>>
>>> I've attached a slightly modified post.
>>>
>>> I'd rather see this in Linux.com rather than XenProject.or= g so it won't be mistaken as an "official" Xen Project positi= on.
>>>
>>> Regarding Amir's comments:
>>>
>>> I've finally had the time to give your comments the consid= eration they are do.=C2=A0 And, while I see your argument and look forward = to your development of the concept into a substantial article somewhere (an= d I am sure the XenProject.org blog will be happy to publish that piece whe= n you have it completed), I don't feel I should severely modify the pie= ce I've written.
>>>
>>> Amir is rightly concerned that my post will be perceived as a = (rather myopic) official position paper.=C2=A0 In fact, it is nothing of th= e sort.=C2=A0 I've written many such pieces over the years to call out = what I perceive as dangerous errors in a populist "hive mind" pos= ition.=C2=A0 The purpose of the piece is to cry, "Whoa!" to a tea= m of horses which are in danger of inciting an ill-considered stampede.=C2= =A0 The carefully detailed whitepapers describing a meticulous counter prop= osal are still needed, but they will not be heeded until the crowd in motio= n slows down enough to read.
>>>
>>> My piece is the cry to slow things down.=C2=A0 I look forward = to Amir's piece (and others) which give us a reasoned argument for a be= tter direction.=C2=A0 But those pieces will be ignored and trampled unless = we can first halt the stampede and get people to slow down enough to heed r= eason.
>>>
>>> Amir, I have pitched a talk for CPOSC in November about the ri= se of the unikernel. I'd be thrilled to see how your workflow justifica= tion matures so I can possibly incorporate elements of your thought into th= at talk (with attribution),=C2=A0 I believe a talk like that would be an ex= cellent place to introduce a more logical positioning of unikernels.
>>>
>>> Russ Pavlicek
>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
>>> Mobile: +1-301-814-1143
>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
>>> From: Russell Pavlicek
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 4:10 PM
>>> To: Sarah Conway; Libby Clark
>>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org
>>> Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernel= s
>>>
>>> Sarah,
>>>
>>> Let me see what I can do this evening on this.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Russ Pavlicek
>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
>>> From: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org [publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org] on= behalf of Sarah Conway [sco= nway@linuxfoundation.org]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:48 PM
>>> To: Libby Clark
>>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernel= s
>>>
>>> Hi Russ,
>>>
>>> Do you have a revised, updated blog to share? If so, please em= ail it so I can review it again. Might want to publish today or tomorrow to= catch some of the VMWorld momentum.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Libby Clark <lclark@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:<= br> >>>> Happy to run on Linux.com if it suits you, Lars.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 20, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@citrix.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought about it and it would be ok on our blog. But= we are sort of preaching to the converted there, so another channel may be= better
>>>>> Lars
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> From: Tzach Livyatan [tzach@cloudius-systems.com]
>>>>> Sent: 20 August 2014 10:06
>>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek
>>>>> Cc: Anil Madhavapeddy; Libby Clark; Lars Kurth; George= Dunlap; publicity@lists.= xenproject.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and U= nikernels
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 5:42 AM, Russell Pavlicek <= russell.pavlicek@citrix.com<= /a><mailto:russell.pavlic= ek@citrix.com>> wrote:
>>>>> Revised version.=C2=A0 I've added Libby (whom I sa= w in the lobby earlier) and the Publicity list.=C2=A0 New title.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lars has indicated he wants this divorced from the Xen= Project blog, since it has the potential to irritate some people.=C2=A0 I&= #39;m fine with that; I irritated people on my own for years.=C2=A0 ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a feeling someone in the 11:15 AM slot tomorrow= will make this piece necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Comments?
>>>>> Good post.
>>>>> Just wanted to point a related 3 parts post from the O= Sv blog
>>>>> http://osv.io/blog/blog/2014/06/1= 9/containers-hypervisors-part-1/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Russ Pavlicek
>>>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>>>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327<tel:%2B1-301-829-5327>
>>>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199<tel:%2B1-240-397-0199>
>>>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894<tel:%2B44%201223%20852%20894>= ;
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@recoil.org<mailto:anil= @recoil.org>]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 9:55 AM
>>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek
>>>>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; sconway@linuxfoundation.org<mailto:sconway@linuxfoundation.org>=
>>>>> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels >>>>>
>>>>> I need a cup of tea now...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 19 Aug 2014, at 08:52, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com<= mailto:russell.pavlicek@citr= ix.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Splendid thank you!
>>>>>
>>>>> And as to the aggressive tone: welcome to America! ;)<= br> >>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my Android phone using TouchDown (www.nitrodesk.com<http://www.nitrodesk.com= />)
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@recoil.org<mailto:anil= @recoil.org>]
>>>>> Received: Tuesday, 19 Aug 2014, 8:37AM
>>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek [russell.pavlicek@citrix.com<mailto:russell.pavlicek@citrix.com>]
>>>>> CC: Lars Kurth [lars.kurth@citrix.com<mailto:lars.kurth@citrix.com>]; George Dunlap [George.Dunlap@citrix.com<mailto:George.Dunlap@citrix.com>]; sconway@linuxfoundation.org<mail= to:sconway@linuxfoundation.o= rg> [sconway@linuxfou= ndation.org<mailto:sc= onway@linuxfoundation.org>]
>>>>> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels >>>>>
>>>>> It's an aggressively toned article, but not offens= ively so.=C2=A0 I like it...
>>>>>
>>>>> A couple of minor tweaks:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell = scripts, and no massive library of utilities to take up room =E2=80=93 or t= o employ in some nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the a= pplication run, and precious little for a malefactor to leverage. It's = not the =E2=80=9Cend-all be-all=E2=80=9D of security, but it is certainly f= acing the right direction.
>>>>>
>>>>> could have a note on type safety added:
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell scri= pts, and no massive library of utilities to take up room =E2=80=93 or to em= ploy in some nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the appli= cation run, and precious little for a malefactor to leverage.=C2=A0 All the= code that is present is statically type-safe, from the application stack a= ll the way down to the device drivers themselves. It's not the =E2=80= =9Cend-all be-all=E2=80=9D of security, but it is certainly facing the righ= t direction.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look = back at the unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will = be a growing forest of unikernel-type systems. Frankly, I can't wait to= see what will develop in this space.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could note that unikernels and containers may well con= verge:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look = back at the unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will = be a growing forest of unikernel-type systems. They can be viewed as the na= tural evolution of Linux containers - maintaining their packaging and deplo= yment benefits, but adding much more specialization into the mix to reduce = resource wastage and external attack surface.
>>>>>
>>>>> -a
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19 Aug 2014, at 07:24, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com= <mailto:russell.pavlicek@= citrix.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Folks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I woke up this morning with this going through my = head.=C2=A0 It was pretty much written in one shot (which I never do), so i= t may take some polishing, but I think the thoughts are all there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see James Bottomley on the Keynote list for Wedn= esday morning and I anticipate another round of the "Docker has won&qu= ot; message that James has become famous for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like your feedback.=C2=A0 Ideally, I'd= like to propose this for Linux.com<http://Linux.com> in order to temper the flawed notion o= f Docker as the panacea of virtualuzation, hopefully before the media swell= around his prognostications dies down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Russ Pavlicek
>>>>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>>>>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327<tel:%2B1-301-829-5= 327>
>>>>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199<tel:%2B1-240-397-0199&g= t;
>>>>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894<tel:%2B44%201223%2085= 2%20894>
>>>>>> <Docker has not won the war-the battle is just = beginning.odt><Docker has not won the war-the battle is just beginnin= g.pdf>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Publicity mailing list
>>>>> Publ= icity@lists.xenproject.org<mailto:Publicity@lists.xenproject.org>
>>>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/= mailman/listinfo/publicity
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Publicity mailing list
>>>> Publicit= y@lists.xenproject.org
>>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mail= man/listinfo/publicity
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sarah Conway
>>> PR Manager
>>> The Linux Foundation
>>> sconway@linuxfo= undation.org
>>> (978) 578-5300=C2=A0 Cell
>>> Skype:=C2=A0 sarah.k.conway
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Publicity mailing list
>>> Publicity@li= sts.xenproject.org
>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/= listinfo/publicity
>>
>> <Docker has not won the war-the battle is just beginning-V4.odt= >_______________________________________________
>> Publicity mailing list
>> Publicity@lists.= xenproject.org
>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/list= info/publicity
>




--
Digital Content Editor
The Linux Foundation
Linux.com=C2= =A0
--047d7bfcf01ca668000501b301df-- --===============8718386056037302007== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity --===============8718386056037302007==-- From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Wed Sep 03 09:08:48 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:08:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XP6YZ-0004r7-ND; Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:08:47 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta4.messagelabs.com ([85.158.143.247]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XMlFP-0003pJ-AZ for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 21:59:19 +0000 Received: from [85.158.143.35:21884] by server-3.bemta-4.messagelabs.com id 17/64-06192-6B45EF35; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 21:59:18 +0000 X-Env-Sender: lclark@linuxfoundation.org X-Msg-Ref: server-14.tower-21.messagelabs.com!1409176755!12062695!1 X-Originating-IP: [74.125.82.51] X-SpamReason: No, hits=1.2 required=7.0 tests=BODY_RANDOM_LONG, HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,RCVD_BY_IP X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 9295 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2014 21:59:15 -0000 Received: from mail-wg0-f51.google.com (HELO mail-wg0-f51.google.com) (74.125.82.51) by server-14.tower-21.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 27 Aug 2014 21:59:15 -0000 Received: by mail-wg0-f51.google.com with SMTP id l18so53825wgh.34 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:59:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linuxfoundation.org; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=W5S5kdqad2tOJ9pix91M0t4dQ4PWsyQPSTBgna+wtXg=; b=LM/FsPe8Ylx9t5UkzOnthCwubR9yGWfjZnneoKASHU3T3O3IZfyAQnlfkKt1lSdNKg Pz5+9uwikGbJR2WVAInRgC1CbCBnm42HRBuwzcV4ss9iDuWfZesxo/+6majPLCsRoM/H FZ0uSyabOYrXEGQ1P/cEoiQMhAMigNW2QMFYw= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=W5S5kdqad2tOJ9pix91M0t4dQ4PWsyQPSTBgna+wtXg=; b=FZ5gMtqj2OdXVfDNabxW9GAsgfBZddAj2zWswfYqVtB/D9kBJLjh1LWv2H8YAhLb6D cHsLmwdNrdBL7iHrOlyBoJ4/1QLAuecLUFXJ4kNMAk6oUbi4T5I1/VeYQzmfQSOnGmvE R2UL97h5lP7nQ+EvCzU8eBASWjzVBG1Hjctty8lwx03qTQEp8N8OqmmhacYwDIxHIn/2 LTWNcl9klZ7yjxTU1WvYUdW18l2Gg7VOFfEzOxJjq9PnlfqMyuZgF2Agl+YEEKYFRrQC XL88RtPx5cGdiXkbFKT6+eQblugyxi8BDyjdz2UzlIeqwQ8J+a/kHmbjLBAEe5Z/slIB dy3w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnI72t7oKGeBg60hbJMGwPg4iimD9PHfWAY41GL3dcLTzx/NabwrZT5Ya4d0+GAiJPpuGAw MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.3.106 with SMTP id b10mr21436125wjb.3.1409176755166; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.75.138 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:59:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2A12092B-929C-4C86-B1FA-8EE55A9854DB@cam.ac.uk> References: <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273C98B@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <833138C1-BFAB-480D-B138-D500EF005AEF@recoil.org> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273CC5D@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273D7D5@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <2ECF831C-2188-4702-B77B-39F31EA1D3A0@linuxfoundation.org> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276C7D7@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276D575@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <1A5A1F00-05E8-4C83-B388-A67D5D69C4B9@cam.ac.uk> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276E461@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <2A12092B-929C-4C86-B1FA-8EE55A9854DB@cam.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 16:59:15 -0500 Message-ID: From: Libby Clark To: Amir Chaudhry X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:08:46 +0000 Cc: Lars Kurth , George Dunlap , "publicity@lists.xenproject.org list" Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1690430836433031630==" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org --===============1690430836433031630== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3a838eeaead40501a387c7 --047d7b3a838eeaead40501a387c7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks everyone for your input. I'm prepping Russ's latest revision for publication on Linux.com tomorrow (Thursday). I agree that it's too good to scrap, and there's value in publishing it as-is. Especially given the timing this week. On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Amir Chaudhry wrote: > I'd rather this piece go up as is, than not go up at all. > > I do see Russ' point and I should clarify that for me, the idea of a > 'battle' between Docker and hypervisors is somewhat false (which obviousl= y > affects how I'm approaching this). However, I'm also aware that there ma= y > be many people out there who *do* perceive it that way and without pieces > like this, will simply repeat the narrative they're already hearing. In > that respect, I do think it important that this post go up. > > I look forward to seeing it live. > > Best wishes, > Amir > > On 27 Aug 2014, at 20:43, Anil Madhavapeddy wrote: > > > I like the piece as it stands, as long as it doesn't go on the Xen.org > blog -- it's much more appropriate as an opinion piece on Linux.com. > > > > Many articles will be needed to get the message across, and I'll work > with Amir on capturing his nuance (which is also very valid -- it's a > complex set of tradeoffs we're making here). > > > > But this piece should go live soon during VMWorld, ideally... > > > > -anil > > > > On 27 Aug 2014, at 20:36, Russell Pavlicek > wrote: > > > >> I've done some work with Sarah and Libby to see if the piece can be > reconstructed as requested. After working with this for a while, I think > it falls apart. > >> > >> Talking about people using Docker in VMs before revealing the supposed > death of hypervisors destroys the premise of the piece: the only logical > end point is to assert that the very notion of a "battle" between > hypervisors and containers is false. And that means total rewrite. > >> > >> With the concept of a "battle" gone, the punch of the piece is gone. > An argument piece must be punchy. Without the battle, the piece begins a > descent into clinical logic, which is useless in a screaming crowd. > Without a total rethink and rewrite, the piece is doomed to failure. > >> > >> I don't think the praises of Docker should be moved to the bottom. If > I don't acknowledge the value of Docker early, I will be quickly dismisse= d > as a hypervisor bigot and many people will quit reading before they see > that I > >> understand its value. Also, the best way to put an opponent off > balance is to compliment him or her, and then smack them. > >> > >> I know this piece isn't all that folks want. Maybe I'm not smart > enough to do that, or maybe I just don't have enough time. But I know wh= at > I have successfully done to wake readers up in the past. I'm suggesting = we > go with the attached. If it isn't what we want, I will scrap it and let > someone else do a more appropriate piece. > >> > >> Russ Pavlicek > >> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 > >> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: Amir Chaudhry [amc79@cam.ac.uk] > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 9:50 AM > >> To: Lars Kurth; Russell Pavlicek > >> Cc: Sarah Conway; Libby Clark; George Dunlap; > publicity@lists.xenproject.org list > >> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >> > >> Russell, thanks for wading through my stream of consciousness. I was > worried I'd torpedoed the discussion and that was not my intent. > >> > >> Regarding this post, I can completely understand the need for a 'hold > your horses' position but I think the current post can still be improved = in > that regard. My suggestions are: > >> > >> - The section on the benefits of containerisation can be moved to much > later in the post, in a shorter paragraph. There's no need to start a 'ho= ld > your horses' post by spurring the horses. > >> > >> - The paragraph beginning "According to reports from a couple differen= t > attendees of LinuxCon..." needs to be nearer the top. IMHO this is the me= at > as it describes why Xen matters (and incidentally, is the kind of scenari= o > I alluded to). > >> > >> - The only argument in the piece is about shared kernels. There's > probably more than this which can be pointed out, e.g if one of your > deployments needs an upgraded/different host OS, you're stuck having to > deal with issues on other containers (to keep things in lockstep). > >> > >> - I feel more should be said about Xen/hypervisors before getting to > unikernels. At the moment there's only one paragraph. Unikernels make sen= se > in the context of Xen (especially now that it's working on ARM =E2=80=94 = which > itself is an important point). > >> > >> - (related to above) The section on unikernels needs more of a lead in= . > At the moment it comes across as a non-sequitur. > >> > >> - "Mirage OS from Xen Project" is better as "Mirage OS, incubated at > Xen Project," > >> > >> I'm more than happy to help with this post if you'd like actual edits > and I can clear time this afternoon (UK time). Just invite me to a Google > doc where we can edit. If you'd prefer to go live as is, I understand tha= t > too. > >> > >> Best wishes, > >> Amir > >> > >> > >> On 27 Aug 2014, at 10:12, Lars Kurth wrote: > >> > >>> Given the recent Docker and VMWare hype, which pretty much seems to b= e > about very little =E2=80=93 aka running Docker within VMWare containers a= nd some > tools integration. A concept that both AWS and Google have completed a > while back, I agree with Russell here. I am not sure how effective it wil= l > be, but we should try > >>> Lars > >>> > >>> From: Russell Pavlicek > >>> Date: Wednesday, 27 August 2014 06:01 > >>> To: Sarah Conway , Libby Clark < > lclark@linuxfoundation.org> > >>> Cc: Lars Kurth , George Dunlap < > george.dunlap@citrix.com>, "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" < > publicity@lists.xenproject.org> > >>> Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>> > >>> Sarah/Libby, > >>> > >>> I've attached a slightly modified post. > >>> > >>> I'd rather see this in Linux.com rather than XenProject.org so it > won't be mistaken as an "official" Xen Project position. > >>> > >>> Regarding Amir's comments: > >>> > >>> I've finally had the time to give your comments the consideration the= y > are do. And, while I see your argument and look forward to your > development of the concept into a substantial article somewhere (and I am > sure the XenProject.org blog will be happy to publish that piece when you > have it completed), I don't feel I should severely modify the piece I've > written. > >>> > >>> Amir is rightly concerned that my post will be perceived as a (rather > myopic) official position paper. In fact, it is nothing of the sort. I'= ve > written many such pieces over the years to call out what I perceive as > dangerous errors in a populist "hive mind" position. The purpose of the > piece is to cry, "Whoa!" to a team of horses which are in danger of > inciting an ill-considered stampede. The carefully detailed whitepapers > describing a meticulous counter proposal are still needed, but they will > not be heeded until the crowd in motion slows down enough to read. > >>> > >>> My piece is the cry to slow things down. I look forward to Amir's > piece (and others) which give us a reasoned argument for a better > direction. But those pieces will be ignored and trampled unless we can > first halt the stampede and get people to slow down enough to heed reason= . > >>> > >>> Amir, I have pitched a talk for CPOSC in November about the rise of > the unikernel. I'd be thrilled to see how your workflow justification > matures so I can possibly incorporate elements of your thought into that > talk (with attribution), I believe a talk like that would be an excellen= t > place to introduce a more logical positioning of unikernels. > >>> > >>> Russ Pavlicek > >>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >>> Mobile: +1-301-814-1143 > >>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >>> From: Russell Pavlicek > >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 4:10 PM > >>> To: Sarah Conway; Libby Clark > >>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>> Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>> > >>> Sarah, > >>> > >>> Let me see what I can do this evening on this. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Russ Pavlicek > >>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 > >>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >>> From: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org [ > publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org] on behalf of Sarah Conway [ > sconway@linuxfoundation.org] > >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:48 PM > >>> To: Libby Clark > >>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>> > >>> Hi Russ, > >>> > >>> Do you have a revised, updated blog to share? If so, please email it > so I can review it again. Might want to publish today or tomorrow to catc= h > some of the VMWorld momentum. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Libby Clark < > lclark@linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > >>>> Happy to run on Linux.com if it suits you, Lars. > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>> > >>>>> On Aug 20, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Lars Kurth > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I thought about it and it would be ok on our blog. But we are sort > of preaching to the converted there, so another channel may be better > >>>>> Lars > >>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>> From: Tzach Livyatan [tzach@cloudius-systems.com] > >>>>> Sent: 20 August 2014 10:06 > >>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek > >>>>> Cc: Anil Madhavapeddy; Libby Clark; Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; > publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 5:42 AM, Russell Pavlicek < > russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote: > >>>>> Revised version. I've added Libby (whom I saw in the lobby earlier= ) > and the Publicity list. New title. > >>>>> > >>>>> Lars has indicated he wants this divorced from the Xen Project blog= , > since it has the potential to irritate some people. I'm fine with that; = I > irritated people on my own for years. ;) > >>>>> > >>>>> I have a feeling someone in the 11:15 AM slot tomorrow will make > this piece necessary. > >>>>> > >>>>> Comments? > >>>>> Good post. > >>>>> Just wanted to point a related 3 parts post from the OSv blog > >>>>> http://osv.io/blog/blog/2014/06/19/containers-hypervisors-part-1/ > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Russ Pavlicek > >>>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >>>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >>>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 > >>>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@recoil.org] > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 9:55 AM > >>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek > >>>>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; sconway@linuxfoundation.org sconway@linuxfoundation.org> > >>>>> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>>>> > >>>>> I need a cup of tea now... > >>>>> > >>>>> On 19 Aug 2014, at 08:52, Russell Pavlicek < > russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Splendid thank you! > >>>>> > >>>>> And as to the aggressive tone: welcome to America! ;) > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my Android phone using TouchDown (www.nitrodesk.com< > http://www.nitrodesk.com/>) > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@recoil.org] > >>>>> Received: Tuesday, 19 Aug 2014, 8:37AM > >>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek [russell.pavlicek@citrix.com russell.pavlicek@citrix.com>] > >>>>> CC: Lars Kurth [lars.kurth@citrix.com= ]; > George Dunlap [George.Dunlap@citrix.com]= ; > sconway@linuxfoundation.org [ > sconway@linuxfoundation.org] > >>>>> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>>>> > >>>>> It's an aggressively toned article, but not offensively so. I like > it... > >>>>> > >>>>> A couple of minor tweaks: > >>>>> > >>>>>> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell scripts, and no > massive library of utilities to take up room =E2=80=93 or to employ in so= me > nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the application run, > and precious little for a malefactor to leverage. It's not the =E2=80=9Ce= nd-all > be-all=E2=80=9D of security, but it is certainly facing the right directi= on. > >>>>> > >>>>> could have a note on type safety added: > >>>>> > >>>>> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell scripts, and no > massive library of utilities to take up room =E2=80=93 or to employ in so= me > nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the application run, > and precious little for a malefactor to leverage. All the code that is > present is statically type-safe, from the application stack all the way > down to the device drivers themselves. It's not the =E2=80=9Cend-all be-a= ll=E2=80=9D of > security, but it is certainly facing the right direction. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look back at the > unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will be a growi= ng > forest of unikernel-type systems. Frankly, I can't wait to see what will > develop in this space. > >>>>> > >>>>> Could note that unikernels and containers may well converge: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look back at the > unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will be a growi= ng > forest of unikernel-type systems. They can be viewed as the natural > evolution of Linux containers - maintaining their packaging and deploymen= t > benefits, but adding much more specialization into the mix to reduce > resource wastage and external attack surface. > >>>>> > >>>>> -a > >>>>> > >>>>>> On 19 Aug 2014, at 07:24, Russell Pavlicek < > russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Folks, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I woke up this morning with this going through my head. It was > pretty much written in one shot (which I never do), so it may take some > polishing, but I think the thoughts are all there. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I see James Bottomley on the Keynote list for Wednesday morning an= d > I anticipate another round of the "Docker has won" message that James has > become famous for. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I'd like your feedback. Ideally, I'd like to propose this for > Linux.com in order to temper the flawed notion of > Docker as the panacea of virtualuzation, hopefully before the media swell > around his prognostications dies down. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> What do you think? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Russ Pavlicek > >>>>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >>>>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >>>>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 > >>>>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >>>>>> beginning.odt> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Publicity mailing list > >>>>> Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > > >>>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Publicity mailing list > >>>> Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Sarah Conway > >>> PR Manager > >>> The Linux Foundation > >>> sconway@linuxfoundation.org > >>> (978) 578-5300 Cell > >>> Skype: sarah.k.conway > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Publicity mailing list > >>> Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > >> > >> beginning-V4.odt>_______________________________________________ > >> Publicity mailing list > >> Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > > > > --=20 Digital Content Editor The Linux Foundation Linux.com @LibbyMClark --047d7b3a838eeaead40501a387c7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks everyone for your input. I'm prepping Russ'= s latest revision for publication on Linux.com tomorrow (Thursday). I agree= that it's too good to scrap, and there's value in publishing it as= -is. Especially given the timing this week.=C2=A0


On Wed, Aug 2= 7, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Amir Chaudhry <amc79@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
=
I'd rather this piece go up as is, than not go up at all.

I do see Russ' point and I should clarify that for me, the idea of a &#= 39;battle' between Docker and hypervisors is somewhat false (which obvi= ously affects how I'm approaching this).=C2=A0 However, I'm also aw= are that there may be many people out there who *do* perceive it that way a= nd without pieces like this, will simply repeat the narrative they're a= lready hearing.=C2=A0 In that respect, I do think it important that this po= st go up.

I look forward to seeing it live.

Best wishes,
Amir

On 27 Aug 2014, at 20:43, Anil Madhavapeddy <anil@recoil.org> wrote:

> I like the piece as it stands, as long as it doesn't go on the Xen= .org blog -- it's much more appropriate as an opinion piece on Linux.co= m.
>
> Many articles will be needed to get the message across, and I'll w= ork with Amir on capturing his nuance (which is also very valid -- it's= a complex set of tradeoffs we're making here).
>
> But this piece should go live soon during VMWorld, ideally...
>
> -anil
>
> On 27 Aug 2014, at 20:36, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote:
>
>> I've done some work with Sarah and Libby to see if the piece c= an be reconstructed as requested.=C2=A0 After working with this for a while= , I think it falls apart.
>>
>> Talking about people using Docker in VMs before revealing the supp= osed death of hypervisors destroys the premise of the piece: the only logic= al end point is to assert that the very notion of a "battle" betw= een hypervisors and containers is false.=C2=A0 And that means total rewrite= .
>>
>> With the concept of a "battle" gone, the punch of the pi= ece is gone.=C2=A0 An argument piece must be punchy. Without the battle, th= e piece begins a descent into clinical logic, which is useless in a screami= ng crowd.=C2=A0 Without a total rethink and rewrite, the piece is doomed to= failure.
>>
>> I don't think the praises of Docker should be moved to the bot= tom.=C2=A0 If I don't acknowledge the value of Docker early, I will be = quickly dismissed as a hypervisor bigot and many people will quit reading b= efore they see that I
>> understand its value.=C2=A0 Also, the best way to put an opponent = off balance is to compliment him or her, and then smack them.
>>
>> I know this piece isn't all that folks want.=C2=A0 Maybe I'= ;m not smart enough to do that, or maybe I just don't have enough time.= =C2=A0 But I know what I have successfully done to wake readers up in the p= ast.=C2=A0 I'm suggesting we go with the attached.=C2=A0 If it isn'= t what we want, I will scrap it and let someone else do a more appropriate = piece.
>>
>> Russ Pavlicek
>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
>> Mobile: += 1-240-397-0199
>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Amir Chaudhry [amc79@cam.= ac.uk]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 9:50 AM
>> To: Lars Kurth; Russell Pavlicek
>> Cc: Sarah Conway; Libby Clark; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org list
>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels >>
>> Russell, thanks for wading through my stream of consciousness.=C2= =A0 I was worried I'd torpedoed the discussion and that was not my inte= nt.
>>
>> Regarding this post, I can completely understand the need for a &#= 39;hold your horses' position but I think the current post can still be= improved in that regard.=C2=A0 My suggestions are:
>>
>> - The section on the benefits of containerisation can be moved to = much later in the post, in a shorter paragraph. There's no need to star= t a 'hold your horses' post by spurring the horses.
>>
>> - The paragraph beginning "According to reports from a couple= different attendees of LinuxCon..." needs to be nearer the top. IMHO = this is the meat as it describes why Xen matters (and incidentally, is the = kind of scenario I alluded to).
>>
>> - The only argument in the piece is about shared kernels. There= 9;s probably more than this which can be pointed out, e.g if one of your de= ployments needs an upgraded/different host OS, you're stuck having to d= eal with issues on other containers (to keep things in lockstep).
>>
>> - I feel more should be said about Xen/hypervisors before getting = to unikernels. At the moment there's only one paragraph. Unikernels mak= e sense in the context of Xen (especially now that it's working on ARM = =E2=80=94 which itself is an important point).
>>
>> - (related to above) The section on unikernels needs more of a lea= d in. At the moment it comes across as a non-sequitur.
>>
>> - "Mirage OS from Xen Project" is better as "Mirage= OS, incubated at Xen Project,"
>>
>> I'm more than happy to help with this post if you'd like a= ctual edits and I can clear time this afternoon (UK time). Just invite me t= o a Google doc where we can edit. If you'd prefer to go live as is, I u= nderstand that too.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Amir
>>
>>
>> On 27 Aug 2014, at 10:12, Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@citrix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Given the recent Docker and VMWare hype, which pretty much see= ms to be about very little =E2=80=93 aka running Docker within VMWare conta= iners and some tools integration. A concept that both AWS and Google have c= ompleted a while back, I agree with Russell here. I am not sure how effecti= ve it will be, but we should try
>>> Lars
>>>
>>> From: Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com>
>>> Date: Wednesday, 27 August 2014 06:01
>>> To: Sarah Conway <sconway@linuxfoundation.org>, Libby Clark <lclark@linuxfoundation.org>
>>> Cc: Lars Kurth <la= rs.kurth@citrix.com>, George Dunlap <george.dunlap@citrix.com>, "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" <= ;publicity@lists.xenproje= ct.org>
>>> Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernel= s
>>>
>>> Sarah/Libby,
>>>
>>> I've attached a slightly modified post.
>>>
>>> I'd rather see this in Linux.com rather than XenProject.or= g so it won't be mistaken as an "official" Xen Project positi= on.
>>>
>>> Regarding Amir's comments:
>>>
>>> I've finally had the time to give your comments the consid= eration they are do.=C2=A0 And, while I see your argument and look forward = to your development of the concept into a substantial article somewhere (an= d I am sure the XenProject.org blog will be happy to publish that piece whe= n you have it completed), I don't feel I should severely modify the pie= ce I've written.
>>>
>>> Amir is rightly concerned that my post will be perceived as a = (rather myopic) official position paper.=C2=A0 In fact, it is nothing of th= e sort.=C2=A0 I've written many such pieces over the years to call out = what I perceive as dangerous errors in a populist "hive mind" pos= ition.=C2=A0 The purpose of the piece is to cry, "Whoa!" to a tea= m of horses which are in danger of inciting an ill-considered stampede.=C2= =A0 The carefully detailed whitepapers describing a meticulous counter prop= osal are still needed, but they will not be heeded until the crowd in motio= n slows down enough to read.
>>>
>>> My piece is the cry to slow things down.=C2=A0 I look forward = to Amir's piece (and others) which give us a reasoned argument for a be= tter direction.=C2=A0 But those pieces will be ignored and trampled unless = we can first halt the stampede and get people to slow down enough to heed r= eason.
>>>
>>> Amir, I have pitched a talk for CPOSC in November about the ri= se of the unikernel. I'd be thrilled to see how your workflow justifica= tion matures so I can possibly incorporate elements of your thought into th= at talk (with attribution),=C2=A0 I believe a talk like that would be an ex= cellent place to introduce a more logical positioning of unikernels.
>>>
>>> Russ Pavlicek
>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
>>> Mobile: +1-301-814-1143
>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
>>> From: Russell Pavlicek
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 4:10 PM
>>> To: Sarah Conway; Libby Clark
>>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org
>>> Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernel= s
>>>
>>> Sarah,
>>>
>>> Let me see what I can do this evening on this.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Russ Pavlicek
>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
>>> From: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org [publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org] on= behalf of Sarah Conway [sco= nway@linuxfoundation.org]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:48 PM
>>> To: Libby Clark
>>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernel= s
>>>
>>> Hi Russ,
>>>
>>> Do you have a revised, updated blog to share? If so, please em= ail it so I can review it again. Might want to publish today or tomorrow to= catch some of the VMWorld momentum.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Libby Clark <lclark@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:<= br> >>>> Happy to run on Linux.com if it suits you, Lars.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 20, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@citrix.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought about it and it would be ok on our blog. But= we are sort of preaching to the converted there, so another channel may be= better
>>>>> Lars
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> From: Tzach Livyatan [tzach@cloudius-systems.com]
>>>>> Sent: 20 August 2014 10:06
>>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek
>>>>> Cc: Anil Madhavapeddy; Libby Clark; Lars Kurth; George= Dunlap; publicity@lists.= xenproject.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and U= nikernels
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 5:42 AM, Russell Pavlicek <= russell.pavlicek@citrix.com<= /a><mailto:russell.pavlic= ek@citrix.com>> wrote:
>>>>> Revised version.=C2=A0 I've added Libby (whom I sa= w in the lobby earlier) and the Publicity list.=C2=A0 New title.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lars has indicated he wants this divorced from the Xen= Project blog, since it has the potential to irritate some people.=C2=A0 I&= #39;m fine with that; I irritated people on my own for years.=C2=A0 ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a feeling someone in the 11:15 AM slot tomorrow= will make this piece necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Comments?
>>>>> Good post.
>>>>> Just wanted to point a related 3 parts post from the O= Sv blog
>>>>> http://osv.io/blog/blog/2014/06/1= 9/containers-hypervisors-part-1/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Russ Pavlicek
>>>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>>>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327<tel:%2B1-301-829-5327>
>>>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199<tel:%2B1-240-397-0199>
>>>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894<tel:%2B44%201223%20852%20894>= ;
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@recoil.org<mailto:anil= @recoil.org>]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 9:55 AM
>>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek
>>>>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; sconway@linuxfoundation.org<mailto:sconway@linuxfoundation.org>=
>>>>> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels >>>>>
>>>>> I need a cup of tea now...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 19 Aug 2014, at 08:52, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com<= mailto:russell.pavlicek@citr= ix.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Splendid thank you!
>>>>>
>>>>> And as to the aggressive tone: welcome to America! ;)<= br> >>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my Android phone using TouchDown (www.nitrodesk.com<http://www.nitrodesk.com= />)
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@recoil.org<mailto:anil= @recoil.org>]
>>>>> Received: Tuesday, 19 Aug 2014, 8:37AM
>>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek [russell.pavlicek@citrix.com<mailto:russell.pavlicek@citrix.com>]
>>>>> CC: Lars Kurth [lars.kurth@citrix.com<mailto:lars.kurth@citrix.com>]; George Dunlap [George.Dunlap@citrix.com<mailto:George.Dunlap@citrix.com>]; sconway@linuxfoundation.org<mail= to:sconway@linuxfoundation.o= rg> [sconway@linuxfou= ndation.org<mailto:sc= onway@linuxfoundation.org>]
>>>>> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels >>>>>
>>>>> It's an aggressively toned article, but not offens= ively so.=C2=A0 I like it...
>>>>>
>>>>> A couple of minor tweaks:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell = scripts, and no massive library of utilities to take up room =E2=80=93 or t= o employ in some nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the a= pplication run, and precious little for a malefactor to leverage. It's = not the =E2=80=9Cend-all be-all=E2=80=9D of security, but it is certainly f= acing the right direction.
>>>>>
>>>>> could have a note on type safety added:
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell scri= pts, and no massive library of utilities to take up room =E2=80=93 or to em= ploy in some nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the appli= cation run, and precious little for a malefactor to leverage.=C2=A0 All the= code that is present is statically type-safe, from the application stack a= ll the way down to the device drivers themselves. It's not the =E2=80= =9Cend-all be-all=E2=80=9D of security, but it is certainly facing the righ= t direction.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look = back at the unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will = be a growing forest of unikernel-type systems. Frankly, I can't wait to= see what will develop in this space.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could note that unikernels and containers may well con= verge:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look = back at the unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will = be a growing forest of unikernel-type systems. They can be viewed as the na= tural evolution of Linux containers - maintaining their packaging and deplo= yment benefits, but adding much more specialization into the mix to reduce = resource wastage and external attack surface.
>>>>>
>>>>> -a
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19 Aug 2014, at 07:24, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com= <mailto:russell.pavlicek@= citrix.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Folks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I woke up this morning with this going through my = head.=C2=A0 It was pretty much written in one shot (which I never do), so i= t may take some polishing, but I think the thoughts are all there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see James Bottomley on the Keynote list for Wedn= esday morning and I anticipate another round of the "Docker has won&qu= ot; message that James has become famous for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like your feedback.=C2=A0 Ideally, I'd= like to propose this for Linux.com<http://Linux.com> in order to temper the flawed notion o= f Docker as the panacea of virtualuzation, hopefully before the media swell= around his prognostications dies down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Russ Pavlicek
>>>>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>>>>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327<tel:%2B1-301-829-5= 327>
>>>>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199<tel:%2B1-240-397-0199&g= t;
>>>>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894<tel:%2B44%201223%2085= 2%20894>
>>>>>> <Docker has not won the war-the battle is just = beginning.odt><Docker has not won the war-the battle is just beginnin= g.pdf>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Publicity mailing list
>>>>> Publ= icity@lists.xenproject.org<mailto:Publicity@lists.xenproject.org>
>>>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/= mailman/listinfo/publicity
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Publicity mailing list
>>>> Publicit= y@lists.xenproject.org
>>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mail= man/listinfo/publicity
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sarah Conway
>>> PR Manager
>>> The Linux Foundation
>>> sconway@linuxfo= undation.org
>>> (978) 578-5300=C2=A0 Cell
>>> Skype:=C2=A0 sarah.k.conway
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Publicity mailing list
>>> Publicity@li= sts.xenproject.org
>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/= listinfo/publicity
>>
>> <Docker has not won the war-the battle is just beginning-V4.odt= >_______________________________________________
>> Publicity mailing list
>> Publicity@lists.= xenproject.org
>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/list= info/publicity
>




--
Digital Content Editor
The Linux Foundation
Linux.com=C2= =A0
--047d7b3a838eeaead40501a387c7-- --===============1690430836433031630== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity --===============1690430836433031630==-- From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Wed Sep 03 09:08:48 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:08:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XP6YZ-0004rB-PG; Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:08:47 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta4.messagelabs.com ([85.158.143.247]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XN2XR-0002Fj-MN for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2014 16:27:06 +0000 Received: from [85.158.143.35:17898] by server-2.bemta-4.messagelabs.com id 16/00-04525-8585FF35; Thu, 28 Aug 2014 16:27:04 +0000 X-Env-Sender: lclark@linuxfoundation.org X-Msg-Ref: server-3.tower-21.messagelabs.com!1409243222!11899463!1 X-Originating-IP: [74.125.82.52] X-SpamReason: No, hits=1.2 required=7.0 tests=BODY_RANDOM_LONG, HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,RCVD_BY_IP X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 27882 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2014 16:27:02 -0000 Received: from mail-wg0-f52.google.com (HELO mail-wg0-f52.google.com) (74.125.82.52) by server-3.tower-21.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 28 Aug 2014 16:27:02 -0000 Received: by mail-wg0-f52.google.com with SMTP id m15so976005wgh.23 for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2014 09:27:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linuxfoundation.org; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=hXUIa8qNAnTb22yfZeZdQZnUYVRKG6ZA4mAClbgv5ks=; b=WC3qu9p8tmRuDJh3JGrlcU2NUwCeoYrDhxJV7EV+37ZBHtdP9+tIyBeu8BcI+HEAlr 94LhVrO+ofwo7apEriych4pY/uf8/VVdEDLNIEgMGf1zcvE5XNXOMCH9JA3gZbX6uQ5e V6NpiEgIzZpqKd0/tuKyBQTQ/RSZiV7eNQf1Y= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=hXUIa8qNAnTb22yfZeZdQZnUYVRKG6ZA4mAClbgv5ks=; b=eOrrtehWXKKzL1P73NNfK5N/oQh+sII4OQ9ZO/OgR8TYh2O3CjJ+ZOmMSTr4LYZqIv am8Ba5QzbSe3A8HcY7ELwVh8IrjOiDUy+34iuqY4ACE8TT0WaVbeCAxAzLDzEJKcBvxt FWOFLywg3SFkTV/zCyW27USwlZ/BGYxMHV9VV8NVkNv/aK3hBbIp8a+T/8Wg0fUd6S8o blcLF5InAADTUiiYCG9CteEiwX3wHCKq5eGnZxkTtVaC62+vvNa4qitnYxixKDHJU4Xp nBp4w+NQ9AX+Amg2VE0Rm/PTh8g6SZGI4xWipmbKFXOyPg6+U1Bgobc0MIYL+Rlr7xNY aHMg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlYQmDATjgYawruRH85z/fpZQzgqDmRqCxPxX5WOAiHmll3PnNYfRrE4bXfEZ1+saLstAO5 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.78.243 with SMTP id e19mr4551114wjx.119.1409243222002; Thu, 28 Aug 2014 09:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.75.138 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Aug 2014 09:27:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2A12092B-929C-4C86-B1FA-8EE55A9854DB@cam.ac.uk> References: <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273C98B@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <833138C1-BFAB-480D-B138-D500EF005AEF@recoil.org> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273CC5D@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273D7D5@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <2ECF831C-2188-4702-B77B-39F31EA1D3A0@linuxfoundation.org> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276C7D7@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276D575@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <1A5A1F00-05E8-4C83-B388-A67D5D69C4B9@cam.ac.uk> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276E461@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <2A12092B-929C-4C86-B1FA-8EE55A9854DB@cam.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 09:27:01 -0700 Message-ID: From: Libby Clark To: Russell Pavlicek , Sarah Conway X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:08:46 +0000 Cc: Lars Kurth , George Dunlap , "publicity@lists.xenproject.org list" Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8718386056037302007==" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org --===============8718386056037302007== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bfcf01ca668000501b301df --047d7bfcf01ca668000501b301df Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good morning all. Russell's article is live today on Linux.com and we'll promote it soon on LF social channels. Thanks again for the contribution! http://www.linux.com/news/enterprise/cloud-computing/785769-containers-vs-h= ypervisors-the-battle-has-just-begun On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Amir Chaudhry wrote: > I'd rather this piece go up as is, than not go up at all. > > I do see Russ' point and I should clarify that for me, the idea of a > 'battle' between Docker and hypervisors is somewhat false (which obviousl= y > affects how I'm approaching this). However, I'm also aware that there ma= y > be many people out there who *do* perceive it that way and without pieces > like this, will simply repeat the narrative they're already hearing. In > that respect, I do think it important that this post go up. > > I look forward to seeing it live. > > Best wishes, > Amir > > On 27 Aug 2014, at 20:43, Anil Madhavapeddy wrote: > > > I like the piece as it stands, as long as it doesn't go on the Xen.org > blog -- it's much more appropriate as an opinion piece on Linux.com. > > > > Many articles will be needed to get the message across, and I'll work > with Amir on capturing his nuance (which is also very valid -- it's a > complex set of tradeoffs we're making here). > > > > But this piece should go live soon during VMWorld, ideally... > > > > -anil > > > > On 27 Aug 2014, at 20:36, Russell Pavlicek > wrote: > > > >> I've done some work with Sarah and Libby to see if the piece can be > reconstructed as requested. After working with this for a while, I think > it falls apart. > >> > >> Talking about people using Docker in VMs before revealing the supposed > death of hypervisors destroys the premise of the piece: the only logical > end point is to assert that the very notion of a "battle" between > hypervisors and containers is false. And that means total rewrite. > >> > >> With the concept of a "battle" gone, the punch of the piece is gone. > An argument piece must be punchy. Without the battle, the piece begins a > descent into clinical logic, which is useless in a screaming crowd. > Without a total rethink and rewrite, the piece is doomed to failure. > >> > >> I don't think the praises of Docker should be moved to the bottom. If > I don't acknowledge the value of Docker early, I will be quickly dismisse= d > as a hypervisor bigot and many people will quit reading before they see > that I > >> understand its value. Also, the best way to put an opponent off > balance is to compliment him or her, and then smack them. > >> > >> I know this piece isn't all that folks want. Maybe I'm not smart > enough to do that, or maybe I just don't have enough time. But I know wh= at > I have successfully done to wake readers up in the past. I'm suggesting = we > go with the attached. If it isn't what we want, I will scrap it and let > someone else do a more appropriate piece. > >> > >> Russ Pavlicek > >> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 > >> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: Amir Chaudhry [amc79@cam.ac.uk] > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 9:50 AM > >> To: Lars Kurth; Russell Pavlicek > >> Cc: Sarah Conway; Libby Clark; George Dunlap; > publicity@lists.xenproject.org list > >> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >> > >> Russell, thanks for wading through my stream of consciousness. I was > worried I'd torpedoed the discussion and that was not my intent. > >> > >> Regarding this post, I can completely understand the need for a 'hold > your horses' position but I think the current post can still be improved = in > that regard. My suggestions are: > >> > >> - The section on the benefits of containerisation can be moved to much > later in the post, in a shorter paragraph. There's no need to start a 'ho= ld > your horses' post by spurring the horses. > >> > >> - The paragraph beginning "According to reports from a couple differen= t > attendees of LinuxCon..." needs to be nearer the top. IMHO this is the me= at > as it describes why Xen matters (and incidentally, is the kind of scenari= o > I alluded to). > >> > >> - The only argument in the piece is about shared kernels. There's > probably more than this which can be pointed out, e.g if one of your > deployments needs an upgraded/different host OS, you're stuck having to > deal with issues on other containers (to keep things in lockstep). > >> > >> - I feel more should be said about Xen/hypervisors before getting to > unikernels. At the moment there's only one paragraph. Unikernels make sen= se > in the context of Xen (especially now that it's working on ARM =E2=80=94 = which > itself is an important point). > >> > >> - (related to above) The section on unikernels needs more of a lead in= . > At the moment it comes across as a non-sequitur. > >> > >> - "Mirage OS from Xen Project" is better as "Mirage OS, incubated at > Xen Project," > >> > >> I'm more than happy to help with this post if you'd like actual edits > and I can clear time this afternoon (UK time). Just invite me to a Google > doc where we can edit. If you'd prefer to go live as is, I understand tha= t > too. > >> > >> Best wishes, > >> Amir > >> > >> > >> On 27 Aug 2014, at 10:12, Lars Kurth wrote: > >> > >>> Given the recent Docker and VMWare hype, which pretty much seems to b= e > about very little =E2=80=93 aka running Docker within VMWare containers a= nd some > tools integration. A concept that both AWS and Google have completed a > while back, I agree with Russell here. I am not sure how effective it wil= l > be, but we should try > >>> Lars > >>> > >>> From: Russell Pavlicek > >>> Date: Wednesday, 27 August 2014 06:01 > >>> To: Sarah Conway , Libby Clark < > lclark@linuxfoundation.org> > >>> Cc: Lars Kurth , George Dunlap < > george.dunlap@citrix.com>, "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" < > publicity@lists.xenproject.org> > >>> Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>> > >>> Sarah/Libby, > >>> > >>> I've attached a slightly modified post. > >>> > >>> I'd rather see this in Linux.com rather than XenProject.org so it > won't be mistaken as an "official" Xen Project position. > >>> > >>> Regarding Amir's comments: > >>> > >>> I've finally had the time to give your comments the consideration the= y > are do. And, while I see your argument and look forward to your > development of the concept into a substantial article somewhere (and I am > sure the XenProject.org blog will be happy to publish that piece when you > have it completed), I don't feel I should severely modify the piece I've > written. > >>> > >>> Amir is rightly concerned that my post will be perceived as a (rather > myopic) official position paper. In fact, it is nothing of the sort. I'= ve > written many such pieces over the years to call out what I perceive as > dangerous errors in a populist "hive mind" position. The purpose of the > piece is to cry, "Whoa!" to a team of horses which are in danger of > inciting an ill-considered stampede. The carefully detailed whitepapers > describing a meticulous counter proposal are still needed, but they will > not be heeded until the crowd in motion slows down enough to read. > >>> > >>> My piece is the cry to slow things down. I look forward to Amir's > piece (and others) which give us a reasoned argument for a better > direction. But those pieces will be ignored and trampled unless we can > first halt the stampede and get people to slow down enough to heed reason= . > >>> > >>> Amir, I have pitched a talk for CPOSC in November about the rise of > the unikernel. I'd be thrilled to see how your workflow justification > matures so I can possibly incorporate elements of your thought into that > talk (with attribution), I believe a talk like that would be an excellen= t > place to introduce a more logical positioning of unikernels. > >>> > >>> Russ Pavlicek > >>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >>> Mobile: +1-301-814-1143 > >>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >>> From: Russell Pavlicek > >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 4:10 PM > >>> To: Sarah Conway; Libby Clark > >>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>> Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>> > >>> Sarah, > >>> > >>> Let me see what I can do this evening on this. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Russ Pavlicek > >>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 > >>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >>> From: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org [ > publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org] on behalf of Sarah Conway [ > sconway@linuxfoundation.org] > >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:48 PM > >>> To: Libby Clark > >>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>> > >>> Hi Russ, > >>> > >>> Do you have a revised, updated blog to share? If so, please email it > so I can review it again. Might want to publish today or tomorrow to catc= h > some of the VMWorld momentum. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Libby Clark < > lclark@linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > >>>> Happy to run on Linux.com if it suits you, Lars. > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>> > >>>>> On Aug 20, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Lars Kurth > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I thought about it and it would be ok on our blog. But we are sort > of preaching to the converted there, so another channel may be better > >>>>> Lars > >>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>> From: Tzach Livyatan [tzach@cloudius-systems.com] > >>>>> Sent: 20 August 2014 10:06 > >>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek > >>>>> Cc: Anil Madhavapeddy; Libby Clark; Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; > publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 5:42 AM, Russell Pavlicek < > russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote: > >>>>> Revised version. I've added Libby (whom I saw in the lobby earlier= ) > and the Publicity list. New title. > >>>>> > >>>>> Lars has indicated he wants this divorced from the Xen Project blog= , > since it has the potential to irritate some people. I'm fine with that; = I > irritated people on my own for years. ;) > >>>>> > >>>>> I have a feeling someone in the 11:15 AM slot tomorrow will make > this piece necessary. > >>>>> > >>>>> Comments? > >>>>> Good post. > >>>>> Just wanted to point a related 3 parts post from the OSv blog > >>>>> http://osv.io/blog/blog/2014/06/19/containers-hypervisors-part-1/ > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Russ Pavlicek > >>>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >>>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >>>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 > >>>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@recoil.org] > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 9:55 AM > >>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek > >>>>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; sconway@linuxfoundation.org sconway@linuxfoundation.org> > >>>>> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>>>> > >>>>> I need a cup of tea now... > >>>>> > >>>>> On 19 Aug 2014, at 08:52, Russell Pavlicek < > russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Splendid thank you! > >>>>> > >>>>> And as to the aggressive tone: welcome to America! ;) > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my Android phone using TouchDown (www.nitrodesk.com< > http://www.nitrodesk.com/>) > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@recoil.org] > >>>>> Received: Tuesday, 19 Aug 2014, 8:37AM > >>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek [russell.pavlicek@citrix.com russell.pavlicek@citrix.com>] > >>>>> CC: Lars Kurth [lars.kurth@citrix.com= ]; > George Dunlap [George.Dunlap@citrix.com]= ; > sconway@linuxfoundation.org [ > sconway@linuxfoundation.org] > >>>>> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels > >>>>> > >>>>> It's an aggressively toned article, but not offensively so. I like > it... > >>>>> > >>>>> A couple of minor tweaks: > >>>>> > >>>>>> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell scripts, and no > massive library of utilities to take up room =E2=80=93 or to employ in so= me > nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the application run, > and precious little for a malefactor to leverage. It's not the =E2=80=9Ce= nd-all > be-all=E2=80=9D of security, but it is certainly facing the right directi= on. > >>>>> > >>>>> could have a note on type safety added: > >>>>> > >>>>> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell scripts, and no > massive library of utilities to take up room =E2=80=93 or to employ in so= me > nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the application run, > and precious little for a malefactor to leverage. All the code that is > present is statically type-safe, from the application stack all the way > down to the device drivers themselves. It's not the =E2=80=9Cend-all be-a= ll=E2=80=9D of > security, but it is certainly facing the right direction. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look back at the > unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will be a growi= ng > forest of unikernel-type systems. Frankly, I can't wait to see what will > develop in this space. > >>>>> > >>>>> Could note that unikernels and containers may well converge: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look back at the > unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will be a growi= ng > forest of unikernel-type systems. They can be viewed as the natural > evolution of Linux containers - maintaining their packaging and deploymen= t > benefits, but adding much more specialization into the mix to reduce > resource wastage and external attack surface. > >>>>> > >>>>> -a > >>>>> > >>>>>> On 19 Aug 2014, at 07:24, Russell Pavlicek < > russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Folks, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I woke up this morning with this going through my head. It was > pretty much written in one shot (which I never do), so it may take some > polishing, but I think the thoughts are all there. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I see James Bottomley on the Keynote list for Wednesday morning an= d > I anticipate another round of the "Docker has won" message that James has > become famous for. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I'd like your feedback. Ideally, I'd like to propose this for > Linux.com in order to temper the flawed notion of > Docker as the panacea of virtualuzation, hopefully before the media swell > around his prognostications dies down. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> What do you think? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Russ Pavlicek > >>>>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems > >>>>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 > >>>>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 > >>>>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 > >>>>>> beginning.odt> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Publicity mailing list > >>>>> Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > > >>>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Publicity mailing list > >>>> Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Sarah Conway > >>> PR Manager > >>> The Linux Foundation > >>> sconway@linuxfoundation.org > >>> (978) 578-5300 Cell > >>> Skype: sarah.k.conway > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Publicity mailing list > >>> Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > >> > >> beginning-V4.odt>_______________________________________________ > >> Publicity mailing list > >> Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > >> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > > > > --=20 Digital Content Editor The Linux Foundation Linux.com @LibbyMClark --047d7bfcf01ca668000501b301df Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good morning all. Russell's article is live today on L= inux.com and we'll promote it soon on LF social channels. Thanks again = for the contribution!




On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Amir Chaudhry= <amc79@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
I'd rather this piece go up as is, than = not go up at all.

I do see Russ' point and I should clarify that for me, the idea of a &#= 39;battle' between Docker and hypervisors is somewhat false (which obvi= ously affects how I'm approaching this).=C2=A0 However, I'm also aw= are that there may be many people out there who *do* perceive it that way a= nd without pieces like this, will simply repeat the narrative they're a= lready hearing.=C2=A0 In that respect, I do think it important that this po= st go up.

I look forward to seeing it live.

Best wishes,
Amir

On 27 Aug 2014, at 20:43, Anil Madhavapeddy <anil@recoil.org> wrote:

> I like the piece as it stands, as long as it doesn't go on the Xen= .org blog -- it's much more appropriate as an opinion piece on Linux.co= m.
>
> Many articles will be needed to get the message across, and I'll w= ork with Amir on capturing his nuance (which is also very valid -- it's= a complex set of tradeoffs we're making here).
>
> But this piece should go live soon during VMWorld, ideally...
>
> -anil
>
> On 27 Aug 2014, at 20:36, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote:
>
>> I've done some work with Sarah and Libby to see if the piece c= an be reconstructed as requested.=C2=A0 After working with this for a while= , I think it falls apart.
>>
>> Talking about people using Docker in VMs before revealing the supp= osed death of hypervisors destroys the premise of the piece: the only logic= al end point is to assert that the very notion of a "battle" betw= een hypervisors and containers is false.=C2=A0 And that means total rewrite= .
>>
>> With the concept of a "battle" gone, the punch of the pi= ece is gone.=C2=A0 An argument piece must be punchy. Without the battle, th= e piece begins a descent into clinical logic, which is useless in a screami= ng crowd.=C2=A0 Without a total rethink and rewrite, the piece is doomed to= failure.
>>
>> I don't think the praises of Docker should be moved to the bot= tom.=C2=A0 If I don't acknowledge the value of Docker early, I will be = quickly dismissed as a hypervisor bigot and many people will quit reading b= efore they see that I
>> understand its value.=C2=A0 Also, the best way to put an opponent = off balance is to compliment him or her, and then smack them.
>>
>> I know this piece isn't all that folks want.=C2=A0 Maybe I'= ;m not smart enough to do that, or maybe I just don't have enough time.= =C2=A0 But I know what I have successfully done to wake readers up in the p= ast.=C2=A0 I'm suggesting we go with the attached.=C2=A0 If it isn'= t what we want, I will scrap it and let someone else do a more appropriate = piece.
>>
>> Russ Pavlicek
>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
>> Mobile: += 1-240-397-0199
>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Amir Chaudhry [amc79@cam.= ac.uk]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 9:50 AM
>> To: Lars Kurth; Russell Pavlicek
>> Cc: Sarah Conway; Libby Clark; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org list
>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels >>
>> Russell, thanks for wading through my stream of consciousness.=C2= =A0 I was worried I'd torpedoed the discussion and that was not my inte= nt.
>>
>> Regarding this post, I can completely understand the need for a &#= 39;hold your horses' position but I think the current post can still be= improved in that regard.=C2=A0 My suggestions are:
>>
>> - The section on the benefits of containerisation can be moved to = much later in the post, in a shorter paragraph. There's no need to star= t a 'hold your horses' post by spurring the horses.
>>
>> - The paragraph beginning "According to reports from a couple= different attendees of LinuxCon..." needs to be nearer the top. IMHO = this is the meat as it describes why Xen matters (and incidentally, is the = kind of scenario I alluded to).
>>
>> - The only argument in the piece is about shared kernels. There= 9;s probably more than this which can be pointed out, e.g if one of your de= ployments needs an upgraded/different host OS, you're stuck having to d= eal with issues on other containers (to keep things in lockstep).
>>
>> - I feel more should be said about Xen/hypervisors before getting = to unikernels. At the moment there's only one paragraph. Unikernels mak= e sense in the context of Xen (especially now that it's working on ARM = =E2=80=94 which itself is an important point).
>>
>> - (related to above) The section on unikernels needs more of a lea= d in. At the moment it comes across as a non-sequitur.
>>
>> - "Mirage OS from Xen Project" is better as "Mirage= OS, incubated at Xen Project,"
>>
>> I'm more than happy to help with this post if you'd like a= ctual edits and I can clear time this afternoon (UK time). Just invite me t= o a Google doc where we can edit. If you'd prefer to go live as is, I u= nderstand that too.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Amir
>>
>>
>> On 27 Aug 2014, at 10:12, Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@citrix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Given the recent Docker and VMWare hype, which pretty much see= ms to be about very little =E2=80=93 aka running Docker within VMWare conta= iners and some tools integration. A concept that both AWS and Google have c= ompleted a while back, I agree with Russell here. I am not sure how effecti= ve it will be, but we should try
>>> Lars
>>>
>>> From: Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com>
>>> Date: Wednesday, 27 August 2014 06:01
>>> To: Sarah Conway <sconway@linuxfoundation.org>, Libby Clark <lclark@linuxfoundation.org>
>>> Cc: Lars Kurth <la= rs.kurth@citrix.com>, George Dunlap <george.dunlap@citrix.com>, "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" <= ;publicity@lists.xenproje= ct.org>
>>> Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernel= s
>>>
>>> Sarah/Libby,
>>>
>>> I've attached a slightly modified post.
>>>
>>> I'd rather see this in Linux.com rather than XenProject.or= g so it won't be mistaken as an "official" Xen Project positi= on.
>>>
>>> Regarding Amir's comments:
>>>
>>> I've finally had the time to give your comments the consid= eration they are do.=C2=A0 And, while I see your argument and look forward = to your development of the concept into a substantial article somewhere (an= d I am sure the XenProject.org blog will be happy to publish that piece whe= n you have it completed), I don't feel I should severely modify the pie= ce I've written.
>>>
>>> Amir is rightly concerned that my post will be perceived as a = (rather myopic) official position paper.=C2=A0 In fact, it is nothing of th= e sort.=C2=A0 I've written many such pieces over the years to call out = what I perceive as dangerous errors in a populist "hive mind" pos= ition.=C2=A0 The purpose of the piece is to cry, "Whoa!" to a tea= m of horses which are in danger of inciting an ill-considered stampede.=C2= =A0 The carefully detailed whitepapers describing a meticulous counter prop= osal are still needed, but they will not be heeded until the crowd in motio= n slows down enough to read.
>>>
>>> My piece is the cry to slow things down.=C2=A0 I look forward = to Amir's piece (and others) which give us a reasoned argument for a be= tter direction.=C2=A0 But those pieces will be ignored and trampled unless = we can first halt the stampede and get people to slow down enough to heed r= eason.
>>>
>>> Amir, I have pitched a talk for CPOSC in November about the ri= se of the unikernel. I'd be thrilled to see how your workflow justifica= tion matures so I can possibly incorporate elements of your thought into th= at talk (with attribution),=C2=A0 I believe a talk like that would be an ex= cellent place to introduce a more logical positioning of unikernels.
>>>
>>> Russ Pavlicek
>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
>>> Mobile: +1-301-814-1143
>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
>>> From: Russell Pavlicek
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 4:10 PM
>>> To: Sarah Conway; Libby Clark
>>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org
>>> Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernel= s
>>>
>>> Sarah,
>>>
>>> Let me see what I can do this evening on this.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Russ Pavlicek
>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
>>> From: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org [publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org] on= behalf of Sarah Conway [sco= nway@linuxfoundation.org]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:48 PM
>>> To: Libby Clark
>>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@lists.xenproject.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernel= s
>>>
>>> Hi Russ,
>>>
>>> Do you have a revised, updated blog to share? If so, please em= ail it so I can review it again. Might want to publish today or tomorrow to= catch some of the VMWorld momentum.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Libby Clark <lclark@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:<= br> >>>> Happy to run on Linux.com if it suits you, Lars.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 20, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@citrix.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought about it and it would be ok on our blog. But= we are sort of preaching to the converted there, so another channel may be= better
>>>>> Lars
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> From: Tzach Livyatan [tzach@cloudius-systems.com]
>>>>> Sent: 20 August 2014 10:06
>>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek
>>>>> Cc: Anil Madhavapeddy; Libby Clark; Lars Kurth; George= Dunlap; publicity@lists.= xenproject.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and U= nikernels
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 5:42 AM, Russell Pavlicek <= russell.pavlicek@citrix.com<= /a><mailto:russell.pavlic= ek@citrix.com>> wrote:
>>>>> Revised version.=C2=A0 I've added Libby (whom I sa= w in the lobby earlier) and the Publicity list.=C2=A0 New title.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lars has indicated he wants this divorced from the Xen= Project blog, since it has the potential to irritate some people.=C2=A0 I&= #39;m fine with that; I irritated people on my own for years.=C2=A0 ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a feeling someone in the 11:15 AM slot tomorrow= will make this piece necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Comments?
>>>>> Good post.
>>>>> Just wanted to point a related 3 parts post from the O= Sv blog
>>>>> http://osv.io/blog/blog/2014/06/1= 9/containers-hypervisors-part-1/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Russ Pavlicek
>>>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>>>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327<tel:%2B1-301-829-5327>
>>>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199<tel:%2B1-240-397-0199>
>>>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894<tel:%2B44%201223%20852%20894>= ;
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@recoil.org<mailto:anil= @recoil.org>]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 9:55 AM
>>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek
>>>>> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; sconway@linuxfoundation.org<mailto:sconway@linuxfoundation.org>=
>>>>> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels >>>>>
>>>>> I need a cup of tea now...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 19 Aug 2014, at 08:52, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com<= mailto:russell.pavlicek@citr= ix.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Splendid thank you!
>>>>>
>>>>> And as to the aggressive tone: welcome to America! ;)<= br> >>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my Android phone using TouchDown (www.nitrodesk.com<http://www.nitrodesk.com= />)
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@recoil.org<mailto:anil= @recoil.org>]
>>>>> Received: Tuesday, 19 Aug 2014, 8:37AM
>>>>> To: Russell Pavlicek [russell.pavlicek@citrix.com<mailto:russell.pavlicek@citrix.com>]
>>>>> CC: Lars Kurth [lars.kurth@citrix.com<mailto:lars.kurth@citrix.com>]; George Dunlap [George.Dunlap@citrix.com<mailto:George.Dunlap@citrix.com>]; sconway@linuxfoundation.org<mail= to:sconway@linuxfoundation.o= rg> [sconway@linuxfou= ndation.org<mailto:sc= onway@linuxfoundation.org>]
>>>>> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels >>>>>
>>>>> It's an aggressively toned article, but not offens= ively so.=C2=A0 I like it...
>>>>>
>>>>> A couple of minor tweaks:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell = scripts, and no massive library of utilities to take up room =E2=80=93 or t= o employ in some nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the a= pplication run, and precious little for a malefactor to leverage. It's = not the =E2=80=9Cend-all be-all=E2=80=9D of security, but it is certainly f= acing the right direction.
>>>>>
>>>>> could have a note on type safety added:
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell scri= pts, and no massive library of utilities to take up room =E2=80=93 or to em= ploy in some nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the appli= cation run, and precious little for a malefactor to leverage.=C2=A0 All the= code that is present is statically type-safe, from the application stack a= ll the way down to the device drivers themselves. It's not the =E2=80= =9Cend-all be-all=E2=80=9D of security, but it is certainly facing the righ= t direction.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look = back at the unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will = be a growing forest of unikernel-type systems. Frankly, I can't wait to= see what will develop in this space.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could note that unikernels and containers may well con= verge:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look = back at the unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will = be a growing forest of unikernel-type systems. They can be viewed as the na= tural evolution of Linux containers - maintaining their packaging and deplo= yment benefits, but adding much more specialization into the mix to reduce = resource wastage and external attack surface.
>>>>>
>>>>> -a
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19 Aug 2014, at 07:24, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com= <mailto:russell.pavlicek@= citrix.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Folks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I woke up this morning with this going through my = head.=C2=A0 It was pretty much written in one shot (which I never do), so i= t may take some polishing, but I think the thoughts are all there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see James Bottomley on the Keynote list for Wedn= esday morning and I anticipate another round of the "Docker has won&qu= ot; message that James has become famous for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like your feedback.=C2=A0 Ideally, I'd= like to propose this for Linux.com<http://Linux.com> in order to temper the flawed notion o= f Docker as the panacea of virtualuzation, hopefully before the media swell= around his prognostications dies down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Russ Pavlicek
>>>>>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>>>>>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327<tel:%2B1-301-829-5= 327>
>>>>>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199<tel:%2B1-240-397-0199&g= t;
>>>>>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894<tel:%2B44%201223%2085= 2%20894>
>>>>>> <Docker has not won the war-the battle is just = beginning.odt><Docker has not won the war-the battle is just beginnin= g.pdf>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Publicity mailing list
>>>>> Publ= icity@lists.xenproject.org<mailto:Publicity@lists.xenproject.org>
>>>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/= mailman/listinfo/publicity
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Publicity mailing list
>>>> Publicit= y@lists.xenproject.org
>>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mail= man/listinfo/publicity
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sarah Conway
>>> PR Manager
>>> The Linux Foundation
>>> sconway@linuxfo= undation.org
>>> (978) 578-5300=C2=A0 Cell
>>> Skype:=C2=A0 sarah.k.conway
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Publicity mailing list
>>> Publicity@li= sts.xenproject.org
>>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/= listinfo/publicity
>>
>> <Docker has not won the war-the battle is just beginning-V4.odt= >_______________________________________________
>> Publicity mailing list
>> Publicity@lists.= xenproject.org
>> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/list= info/publicity
>




--
Digital Content Editor
The Linux Foundation
Linux.com=C2= =A0
--047d7bfcf01ca668000501b301df-- --===============8718386056037302007== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity --===============8718386056037302007==-- From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Wed Sep 03 09:24:42 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:24:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XP6nx-00057C-Dy; Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:24:41 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta5.messagelabs.com ([195.245.231.135]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XP6nw-000577-NU for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:24:40 +0000 Received: from [85.158.139.211:11781] by server-7.bemta-5.messagelabs.com id 59/39-30869-05ED6045; Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:24:32 +0000 X-Env-Sender: dario.faggioli@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-7.tower-206.messagelabs.com!1409736261!12197609!1 X-Originating-IP: [66.165.176.89] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests=sa_preprocessor: VHJ1c3RlZCBJUDogNjYuMTY1LjE3Ni44OSA9PiAyMDMwMDc=\n, ML_RADAR_SPEW_LINKS_8, spamassassin: , async_handler: YXN5bmNfZGVsYXk6IDcwNDY4ODYgKHRpbWVvdXQp\n X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 4544 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2014 09:24:22 -0000 Received: from smtp.citrix.com (HELO SMTP.CITRIX.COM) (66.165.176.89) by server-7.tower-206.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 3 Sep 2014 09:24:22 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,456,1406592000"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="167886874" Received: from [127.0.0.1] (10.80.16.47) by smtprelay.citrix.com (10.13.107.78) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.181.6; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 05:24:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1409736258.2673.26.camel@Solace.lan> From: Dario Faggioli To: Libby Clark Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 11:24:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273C98B@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <833138C1-BFAB-480D-B138-D500EF005AEF@recoil.org> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273CC5D@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273D7D5@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <2ECF831C-2188-4702-B77B-39F31EA1D3A0@linuxfoundation.org> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276C7D7@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276D575@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <1A5A1F00-05E8-4C83-B388-A67D5D69C4B9@cam.ac.uk> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276E461@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <2A12092B-929C-4C86-B1FA-8EE55A9854DB@cam.ac.uk> Organization: Citrix X-Mailer: Evolution 3.10.4 (3.10.4-3.fc20) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DLP: MIA2 Cc: Lars Kurth , George Dunlap , "publicity@lists.xenproject.org list" Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6462416667493825223==" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org --===============6462416667493825223== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-iNVbtnlExeF93dEDVDAv" --=-iNVbtnlExeF93dEDVDAv Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On gio, 2014-08-28 at 09:27 -0700, Libby Clark wrote: > Good morning all. Russell's article is live today on Linux.com and > we'll promote it soon on LF social channels. Thanks again for the > contribution! >=20 >=20 > http://www.linux.com/news/enterprise/cloud-computing/785769-containers-vs= -hypervisors-the-battle-has-just-begun >=20 >=20 Sorry for getting these messages out of the moderator queue only now, but I was on vacation last week. I'm not sure why they actually got stuck, as Libby's address should already be among the approved ones... Just in case, I added her to the filter again, let's see if it goes better next time. :-) Regards, Dario --=20 <> (Raistlin Majere) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Faggioli, Ph.D, http://about.me/dario.faggioli Senior Software Engineer, Citrix Systems R&D Ltd., Cambridge (UK) --=-iNVbtnlExeF93dEDVDAv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEABECAAYFAlQG3kIACgkQk4XaBE3IOsRmuACgkkDsDs5CPP/0q0qGm/Mt2vAT R6AAoKHyxRpLSGLfSc+yGuoOq41J8fwJ =Grw9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-iNVbtnlExeF93dEDVDAv-- --===============6462416667493825223== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity --===============6462416667493825223==-- From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Wed Sep 03 09:24:42 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:24:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XP6nx-00057C-Dy; Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:24:41 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta5.messagelabs.com ([195.245.231.135]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XP6nw-000577-NU for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:24:40 +0000 Received: from [85.158.139.211:11781] by server-7.bemta-5.messagelabs.com id 59/39-30869-05ED6045; Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:24:32 +0000 X-Env-Sender: dario.faggioli@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-7.tower-206.messagelabs.com!1409736261!12197609!1 X-Originating-IP: [66.165.176.89] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests=sa_preprocessor: VHJ1c3RlZCBJUDogNjYuMTY1LjE3Ni44OSA9PiAyMDMwMDc=\n, ML_RADAR_SPEW_LINKS_8, spamassassin: , async_handler: YXN5bmNfZGVsYXk6IDcwNDY4ODYgKHRpbWVvdXQp\n X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 4544 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2014 09:24:22 -0000 Received: from smtp.citrix.com (HELO SMTP.CITRIX.COM) (66.165.176.89) by server-7.tower-206.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 3 Sep 2014 09:24:22 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,456,1406592000"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="167886874" Received: from [127.0.0.1] (10.80.16.47) by smtprelay.citrix.com (10.13.107.78) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.181.6; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 05:24:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1409736258.2673.26.camel@Solace.lan> From: Dario Faggioli To: Libby Clark Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 11:24:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273C98B@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <833138C1-BFAB-480D-B138-D500EF005AEF@recoil.org> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273CC5D@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA273D7D5@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <2ECF831C-2188-4702-B77B-39F31EA1D3A0@linuxfoundation.org> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276C7D7@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276D575@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <1A5A1F00-05E8-4C83-B388-A67D5D69C4B9@cam.ac.uk> <55E78A57290FB64FA0D3CF672F9F3DA276E461@SJCPEX01CL03.citrite.net> <2A12092B-929C-4C86-B1FA-8EE55A9854DB@cam.ac.uk> Organization: Citrix X-Mailer: Evolution 3.10.4 (3.10.4-3.fc20) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DLP: MIA2 Cc: Lars Kurth , George Dunlap , "publicity@lists.xenproject.org list" Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6462416667493825223==" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org --===============6462416667493825223== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-iNVbtnlExeF93dEDVDAv" --=-iNVbtnlExeF93dEDVDAv Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On gio, 2014-08-28 at 09:27 -0700, Libby Clark wrote: > Good morning all. Russell's article is live today on Linux.com and > we'll promote it soon on LF social channels. Thanks again for the > contribution! >=20 >=20 > http://www.linux.com/news/enterprise/cloud-computing/785769-containers-vs= -hypervisors-the-battle-has-just-begun >=20 >=20 Sorry for getting these messages out of the moderator queue only now, but I was on vacation last week. I'm not sure why they actually got stuck, as Libby's address should already be among the approved ones... Just in case, I added her to the filter again, let's see if it goes better next time. :-) Regards, Dario --=20 <> (Raistlin Majere) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Faggioli, Ph.D, http://about.me/dario.faggioli Senior Software Engineer, Citrix Systems R&D Ltd., Cambridge (UK) --=-iNVbtnlExeF93dEDVDAv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEABECAAYFAlQG3kIACgkQk4XaBE3IOsRmuACgkkDsDs5CPP/0q0qGm/Mt2vAT R6AAoKHyxRpLSGLfSc+yGuoOq41J8fwJ =Grw9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-iNVbtnlExeF93dEDVDAv-- --===============6462416667493825223== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity --===============6462416667493825223==-- From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Fri Sep 05 16:25:56 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 16:25:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XPwKh-0000jR-Bk; Fri, 05 Sep 2014 16:25:55 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta14.messagelabs.com ([193.109.254.103]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XPwKf-0000jM-JL for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2014 16:25:53 +0000 Received: from [193.109.254.147:48934] by server-16.bemta-14.messagelabs.com id EC/3B-16990-014E9045; Fri, 05 Sep 2014 16:25:52 +0000 X-Env-Sender: sconway@linuxfoundation.org X-Msg-Ref: server-8.tower-27.messagelabs.com!1409934352!13756218!1 X-Originating-IP: [74.125.82.46] X-SpamReason: No, hits=2.8 required=7.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_SUBJECT,ML_RADAR_SPEW_LINKS_16,RCVD_BY_IP,spamassassin: X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 31964 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2014 16:25:52 -0000 Received: from mail-wg0-f46.google.com (HELO mail-wg0-f46.google.com) (74.125.82.46) by server-8.tower-27.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 5 Sep 2014 16:25:52 -0000 Received: by mail-wg0-f46.google.com with SMTP id n12so1056318wgh.17 for ; Fri, 05 Sep 2014 09:25:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linuxfoundation.org; s=google; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=rbmZiLGDFVRiduVkVItdcx8yxSJRUgKgNM2zl87SN6E=; b=T8lb//fLpmC5hwIB7guLi1cN64qttp+GWKISB9BOtbjreHHXHQ69Y2X29ta4lyuc8T ZhkMF0a7Q6SC8hFieG3KQGwtHpVsAMEcTBtE2GUGKg9PL0yTtucx0CVXXt7I/2HyMdNo WmWzh8f4ogwIPiu/CyBG8RiRyibIug9QDaj6I= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=rbmZiLGDFVRiduVkVItdcx8yxSJRUgKgNM2zl87SN6E=; b=N4P4LyX3EiPKBChh/SFBtmmWkFT2W1wBoTOY8jJssmYL+mmPV0e6q1JmbD172z8qmv AjICvKy9oqgbqLA2LscXpWA6UyeahU1WcUaI7gqi8/eVooBvlbUE3hb9oZg9VpfRTNrd gK3uWgale9EwYjl6Buh/nX8UOB7i09AMB0ulkUO0vPrqDQvObNJHUF4ZqcsZfDUD5yjf Es0+jU0ivDAUYvEdzatYe6yxJJv+ze2kHJeBNvTbgyODreK1XQi84KohOyndcpD724rR 8ziysn3EfzqCOvTe72VsaEUV9v8FBE/1jfSLwRzoKsaNR7C5c5gO6Kf/ioR24TRD3/Fk nEiA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlh+ukloZb5RBpnUzw6UWhQWiMZKIY+T0fiJWeIE/6keXu16B7GAvW0vHUeRILhyGN40V+O MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.93.7 with SMTP id cq7mr16363232wjb.58.1409934351836; Fri, 05 Sep 2014 09:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.45.73 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 09:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 12:25:51 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sarah Conway To: "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" Subject: [Publicity] (no subject) X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2470468431059431659==" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org --===============2470468431059431659== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bb040aa32cd61050253ec4e --047d7bb040aa32cd61050253ec4e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi all, Olivier Lambert wrote a blog on Xen Orchestra and Docker. The post is ready for review and will be published Monday on our blog as well as Linux.com. http://blog.xen.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=9991&action=edit Thanks, -- Sarah Conway PR Manager The Linux Foundation sconway@linuxfoundation.org (978) 578-5300 Cell Skype: sarah.k.conway --047d7bb040aa32cd61050253ec4e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

Olivier Lambert wrote a blog on Xen Orche= stra and Docker. The post is ready for review and will be published Monday = on our blog as well as Linux.com.
--047d7bb040aa32cd61050253ec4e-- --===============2470468431059431659== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity --===============2470468431059431659==-- From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Fri Sep 05 16:25:56 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 16:25:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XPwKh-0000jR-Bk; Fri, 05 Sep 2014 16:25:55 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta14.messagelabs.com ([193.109.254.103]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XPwKf-0000jM-JL for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2014 16:25:53 +0000 Received: from [193.109.254.147:48934] by server-16.bemta-14.messagelabs.com id EC/3B-16990-014E9045; Fri, 05 Sep 2014 16:25:52 +0000 X-Env-Sender: sconway@linuxfoundation.org X-Msg-Ref: server-8.tower-27.messagelabs.com!1409934352!13756218!1 X-Originating-IP: [74.125.82.46] X-SpamReason: No, hits=2.8 required=7.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_SUBJECT,ML_RADAR_SPEW_LINKS_16,RCVD_BY_IP,spamassassin: X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 31964 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2014 16:25:52 -0000 Received: from mail-wg0-f46.google.com (HELO mail-wg0-f46.google.com) (74.125.82.46) by server-8.tower-27.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 5 Sep 2014 16:25:52 -0000 Received: by mail-wg0-f46.google.com with SMTP id n12so1056318wgh.17 for ; Fri, 05 Sep 2014 09:25:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linuxfoundation.org; s=google; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=rbmZiLGDFVRiduVkVItdcx8yxSJRUgKgNM2zl87SN6E=; b=T8lb//fLpmC5hwIB7guLi1cN64qttp+GWKISB9BOtbjreHHXHQ69Y2X29ta4lyuc8T ZhkMF0a7Q6SC8hFieG3KQGwtHpVsAMEcTBtE2GUGKg9PL0yTtucx0CVXXt7I/2HyMdNo WmWzh8f4ogwIPiu/CyBG8RiRyibIug9QDaj6I= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=rbmZiLGDFVRiduVkVItdcx8yxSJRUgKgNM2zl87SN6E=; b=N4P4LyX3EiPKBChh/SFBtmmWkFT2W1wBoTOY8jJssmYL+mmPV0e6q1JmbD172z8qmv AjICvKy9oqgbqLA2LscXpWA6UyeahU1WcUaI7gqi8/eVooBvlbUE3hb9oZg9VpfRTNrd gK3uWgale9EwYjl6Buh/nX8UOB7i09AMB0ulkUO0vPrqDQvObNJHUF4ZqcsZfDUD5yjf Es0+jU0ivDAUYvEdzatYe6yxJJv+ze2kHJeBNvTbgyODreK1XQi84KohOyndcpD724rR 8ziysn3EfzqCOvTe72VsaEUV9v8FBE/1jfSLwRzoKsaNR7C5c5gO6Kf/ioR24TRD3/Fk nEiA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlh+ukloZb5RBpnUzw6UWhQWiMZKIY+T0fiJWeIE/6keXu16B7GAvW0vHUeRILhyGN40V+O MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.93.7 with SMTP id cq7mr16363232wjb.58.1409934351836; Fri, 05 Sep 2014 09:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.45.73 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 09:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 12:25:51 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sarah Conway To: "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" Subject: [Publicity] (no subject) X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2470468431059431659==" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org --===============2470468431059431659== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bb040aa32cd61050253ec4e --047d7bb040aa32cd61050253ec4e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi all, Olivier Lambert wrote a blog on Xen Orchestra and Docker. The post is ready for review and will be published Monday on our blog as well as Linux.com. http://blog.xen.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=9991&action=edit Thanks, -- Sarah Conway PR Manager The Linux Foundation sconway@linuxfoundation.org (978) 578-5300 Cell Skype: sarah.k.conway --047d7bb040aa32cd61050253ec4e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

Olivier Lambert wrote a blog on Xen Orche= stra and Docker. The post is ready for review and will be published Monday = on our blog as well as Linux.com.
 --047d7bb040aa32cd61050253ec4e-- --===============2470468431059431659== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity --===============2470468431059431659==-- From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Thu Sep 11 09:49:21 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:49:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS10D-0005TQ-8M; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:49:21 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta5.messagelabs.com ([195.245.231.135]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS10B-0005TL-SK for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:49:19 +0000 Received: from [85.158.139.211:27077] by server-16.bemta-5.messagelabs.com id EF/4B-01029-F1071145; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:49:19 +0000 X-Env-Sender: dario.faggioli@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-12.tower-206.messagelabs.com!1410428957!13837272!1 X-Originating-IP: [66.165.176.89] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests=sa_preprocessor: VHJ1c3RlZCBJUDogNjYuMTY1LjE3Ni44OSA9PiAyMDMwMDc=\n, ML_RADAR_SPEW_LINKS_16, ML_RADAR_SPEW_LINKS_8,spamassassin: X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 28058 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2014 09:49:18 -0000 Received: from smtp.citrix.com (HELO SMTP.CITRIX.COM) (66.165.176.89) by server-12.tower-206.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 11 Sep 2014 09:49:18 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,504,1406592000"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="170498648" Received: from [127.0.0.1] (10.80.16.47) by smtprelay.citrix.com (10.13.107.80) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.181.6; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 05:49:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1410428954.3656.12.camel@Abyss> From: Dario Faggioli To: Sarah Conway Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 11:49:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Citrix X-Mailer: Evolution 3.10.4 (3.10.4-3.fc20) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DLP: MIA1 Cc: "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" Subject: Re: [Publicity] (no subject) X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0405827386036454397==" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org --===============0405827386036454397== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-LYnc+pqwmwxtuxmbFo6o" --=-LYnc+pqwmwxtuxmbFo6o Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 2014-09-05 at 12:25 -0400, Sarah Conway wrote: > Olivier Lambert wrote a blog on Xen Orchestra and Docker. The post is > ready for review and will be published Monday on our blog as well as > Linux.com. >=20 >=20 > http://blog.xen.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=3D9991&action=3Dedit >=20 Which now is on TheRegister: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2014/09/09/another_day_another_virt= ualiser_gives_docker_a_big_sloppy_kiss/ Regards, Dario --=20 <> (Raistlin Majere) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Faggioli, Ph.D, http://about.me/dario.faggioli Senior Software Engineer, Citrix Systems R&D Ltd., Cambridge (UK) --=-LYnc+pqwmwxtuxmbFo6o Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEABECAAYFAlQRcBoACgkQk4XaBE3IOsQMPQCeNzPzCg2YubkAlYww0VZmi1Xf PKIAnA9KDaHjRpRhMeDwuRVkTFyYi55L =2/9a -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-LYnc+pqwmwxtuxmbFo6o-- --===============0405827386036454397== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity --===============0405827386036454397==-- From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Thu Sep 11 09:49:21 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:49:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS10D-0005TQ-8M; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:49:21 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta5.messagelabs.com ([195.245.231.135]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS10B-0005TL-SK for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:49:19 +0000 Received: from [85.158.139.211:27077] by server-16.bemta-5.messagelabs.com id EF/4B-01029-F1071145; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:49:19 +0000 X-Env-Sender: dario.faggioli@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-12.tower-206.messagelabs.com!1410428957!13837272!1 X-Originating-IP: [66.165.176.89] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests=sa_preprocessor: VHJ1c3RlZCBJUDogNjYuMTY1LjE3Ni44OSA9PiAyMDMwMDc=\n, ML_RADAR_SPEW_LINKS_16, ML_RADAR_SPEW_LINKS_8,spamassassin: X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 28058 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2014 09:49:18 -0000 Received: from smtp.citrix.com (HELO SMTP.CITRIX.COM) (66.165.176.89) by server-12.tower-206.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 11 Sep 2014 09:49:18 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,504,1406592000"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="170498648" Received: from [127.0.0.1] (10.80.16.47) by smtprelay.citrix.com (10.13.107.80) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.181.6; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 05:49:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1410428954.3656.12.camel@Abyss> From: Dario Faggioli To: Sarah Conway Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 11:49:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Citrix X-Mailer: Evolution 3.10.4 (3.10.4-3.fc20) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DLP: MIA1 Cc: "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" Subject: Re: [Publicity] (no subject) X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0405827386036454397==" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org --===============0405827386036454397== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-LYnc+pqwmwxtuxmbFo6o" --=-LYnc+pqwmwxtuxmbFo6o Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 2014-09-05 at 12:25 -0400, Sarah Conway wrote: > Olivier Lambert wrote a blog on Xen Orchestra and Docker. The post is > ready for review and will be published Monday on our blog as well as > Linux.com. >=20 >=20 > http://blog.xen.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=3D9991&action=3Dedit >=20 Which now is on TheRegister: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2014/09/09/another_day_another_virt= ualiser_gives_docker_a_big_sloppy_kiss/ Regards, Dario --=20 <> (Raistlin Majere) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Faggioli, Ph.D, http://about.me/dario.faggioli Senior Software Engineer, Citrix Systems R&D Ltd., Cambridge (UK) --=-LYnc+pqwmwxtuxmbFo6o Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEABECAAYFAlQRcBoACgkQk4XaBE3IOsQMPQCeNzPzCg2YubkAlYww0VZmi1Xf PKIAnA9KDaHjRpRhMeDwuRVkTFyYi55L =2/9a -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-LYnc+pqwmwxtuxmbFo6o-- --===============0405827386036454397== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity --===============0405827386036454397==-- From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Thu Sep 11 15:08:31 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:08:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS5z4-0000Jt-K0; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:08:30 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta5.messagelabs.com ([195.245.231.135]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS5z3-0000Jo-MW for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:08:29 +0000 Received: from [85.158.139.211:41354] by server-14.bemta-5.messagelabs.com id 62/38-12422-DEAB1145; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:08:29 +0000 X-Env-Sender: George.Dunlap@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-14.tower-206.messagelabs.com!1410448103!8527627!1 X-Originating-IP: [66.165.176.63] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests=sa_preprocessor: VHJ1c3RlZCBJUDogNjYuMTY1LjE3Ni42MyA9PiAzMDYwNDg=\n X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 4359 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2014 15:08:28 -0000 Received: from smtp02.citrix.com (HELO SMTP02.CITRIX.COM) (66.165.176.63) by server-14.tower-206.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 11 Sep 2014 15:08:28 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,506,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="171413175" Received: from ukmail1.uk.xensource.com (10.80.16.128) by smtprelay.citrix.com (10.13.107.78) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.181.6; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 11:08:21 -0400 Received: from elijah.uk.xensource.com ([10.80.2.24]) by ukmail1.uk.xensource.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XS5yv-00053Y-Rj; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 16:08:21 +0100 Message-ID: <5411BAE1.3030306@eu.citrix.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 16:08:17 +0100 From: George Dunlap User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lars Kurth , "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" X-DLP: MIA2 Subject: [Publicity] Virt devroom at FOSDEM? (Deadline MONDAY 15 September) X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Hey all -- KB just brought to my attention that the deadline for devroom proposals for FOSDEM this year is Monday, 15 September. I realize it's a bit of work and hassle, and in the past Lars has ended up picking up a lot of the work to make things happen. But on the other hand, it gives us a good place to give useful talks about Xen; we've always had really good attendance in the past. I'm not working tomorrow, but if someone has last years' submission I could work it up and send it in Monday. -George _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Thu Sep 11 15:08:31 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:08:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS5z4-0000Jt-K0; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:08:30 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta5.messagelabs.com ([195.245.231.135]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS5z3-0000Jo-MW for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:08:29 +0000 Received: from [85.158.139.211:41354] by server-14.bemta-5.messagelabs.com id 62/38-12422-DEAB1145; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:08:29 +0000 X-Env-Sender: George.Dunlap@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-14.tower-206.messagelabs.com!1410448103!8527627!1 X-Originating-IP: [66.165.176.63] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests=sa_preprocessor: VHJ1c3RlZCBJUDogNjYuMTY1LjE3Ni42MyA9PiAzMDYwNDg=\n X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 4359 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2014 15:08:28 -0000 Received: from smtp02.citrix.com (HELO SMTP02.CITRIX.COM) (66.165.176.63) by server-14.tower-206.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 11 Sep 2014 15:08:28 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,506,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="171413175" Received: from ukmail1.uk.xensource.com (10.80.16.128) by smtprelay.citrix.com (10.13.107.78) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.181.6; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 11:08:21 -0400 Received: from elijah.uk.xensource.com ([10.80.2.24]) by ukmail1.uk.xensource.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XS5yv-00053Y-Rj; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 16:08:21 +0100 Message-ID: <5411BAE1.3030306@eu.citrix.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 16:08:17 +0100 From: George Dunlap User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lars Kurth , "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" X-DLP: MIA2 Subject: [Publicity] Virt devroom at FOSDEM? (Deadline MONDAY 15 September) X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Hey all -- KB just brought to my attention that the deadline for devroom proposals for FOSDEM this year is Monday, 15 September. I realize it's a bit of work and hassle, and in the past Lars has ended up picking up a lot of the work to make things happen. But on the other hand, it gives us a good place to give useful talks about Xen; we've always had really good attendance in the past. I'm not working tomorrow, but if someone has last years' submission I could work it up and send it in Monday. -George _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Thu Sep 11 15:15:32 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:15:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS65r-0000bU-Bk; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:15:31 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta5.messagelabs.com ([195.245.231.135]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS65q-0000bP-0R for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:15:30 +0000 Received: from [85.158.139.211:4507] by server-11.bemta-5.messagelabs.com id 19/69-11011-19CB1145; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:15:29 +0000 X-Env-Sender: lars.kurth@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-13.tower-206.messagelabs.com!1410448528!13947189!1 X-Originating-IP: [185.25.65.24] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests=received_headers: No Received headers X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 24948 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2014 15:15:28 -0000 Received: from smtp.eu.citrix.com (HELO SMTP.EU.CITRIX.COM) (185.25.65.24) by server-13.tower-206.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 11 Sep 2014 15:15:28 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,506,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="24682780" From: Lars Kurth To: George Dunlap , "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" Thread-Topic: Virt devroom at FOSDEM? (Deadline MONDAY 15 September) Thread-Index: AQHPzdI7sNQeenTqjEqo8cEfiFZOnpv7c+iA Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:15:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5411BAE1.3030306@eu.citrix.com> In-Reply-To: <5411BAE1.3030306@eu.citrix.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 Content-ID: <2E0BC1E58C6784469A9B9E26259C6F7C@citrix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DLP: AMS1 Subject: Re: [Publicity] Virt devroom at FOSDEM? (Deadline MONDAY 15 September) X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org George, the OpenStack Foundation, me and Joe Brockmeier from Redhat are making a joint proposal Regards Lars On 11/09/2014 08:08, "George Dunlap" wrote: >Hey all -- > >KB just brought to my attention that the deadline for devroom proposals >for FOSDEM this year is Monday, 15 September. I realize it's a bit of >work and hassle, and in the past Lars has ended up picking up a lot of >the work to make things happen. But on the other hand, it gives us a >good place to give useful talks about Xen; we've always had really good >attendance in the past. > >I'm not working tomorrow, but if someone has last years' submission I >could work it up and send it in Monday. > > -George _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Thu Sep 11 15:15:32 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:15:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS65r-0000bU-Bk; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:15:31 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta5.messagelabs.com ([195.245.231.135]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS65q-0000bP-0R for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:15:30 +0000 Received: from [85.158.139.211:4507] by server-11.bemta-5.messagelabs.com id 19/69-11011-19CB1145; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:15:29 +0000 X-Env-Sender: lars.kurth@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-13.tower-206.messagelabs.com!1410448528!13947189!1 X-Originating-IP: [185.25.65.24] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests=received_headers: No Received headers X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 24948 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2014 15:15:28 -0000 Received: from smtp.eu.citrix.com (HELO SMTP.EU.CITRIX.COM) (185.25.65.24) by server-13.tower-206.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 11 Sep 2014 15:15:28 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,506,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="24682780" From: Lars Kurth To: George Dunlap , "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" Thread-Topic: Virt devroom at FOSDEM? (Deadline MONDAY 15 September) Thread-Index: AQHPzdI7sNQeenTqjEqo8cEfiFZOnpv7c+iA Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:15:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5411BAE1.3030306@eu.citrix.com> In-Reply-To: <5411BAE1.3030306@eu.citrix.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 Content-ID: <2E0BC1E58C6784469A9B9E26259C6F7C@citrix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DLP: AMS1 Subject: Re: [Publicity] Virt devroom at FOSDEM? (Deadline MONDAY 15 September) X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org George, the OpenStack Foundation, me and Joe Brockmeier from Redhat are making a joint proposal Regards Lars On 11/09/2014 08:08, "George Dunlap" wrote: >Hey all -- > >KB just brought to my attention that the deadline for devroom proposals >for FOSDEM this year is Monday, 15 September. I realize it's a bit of >work and hassle, and in the past Lars has ended up picking up a lot of >the work to make things happen. But on the other hand, it gives us a >good place to give useful talks about Xen; we've always had really good >attendance in the past. > >I'm not working tomorrow, but if someone has last years' submission I >could work it up and send it in Monday. > > -George _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Thu Sep 11 15:40:57 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:40:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS6US-0002wh-E1; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:40:56 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta3.messagelabs.com ([195.245.230.39]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS6UQ-0002wR-Ig for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:40:54 +0000 Received: from [85.158.137.68:54287] by server-3.bemta-3.messagelabs.com id 4F/5D-22751-582C1145; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:40:53 +0000 X-Env-Sender: lars.kurth@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-14.tower-31.messagelabs.com!1410450052!11507651!1 X-Originating-IP: [185.25.65.24] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.5 required=7.0 tests=BODY_RANDOM_LONG, ML_RADAR_SPEW_LINKS_23,spamassassin: ,received_headers: No Received headers X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 6073 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2014 15:40:53 -0000 Received: from smtp.ctxuk.citrix.com (HELO SMTP.EU.CITRIX.COM) (185.25.65.24) by server-14.tower-31.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 11 Sep 2014 15:40:53 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,506,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="24683385" From: Lars Kurth To: George Dunlap , "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" Thread-Topic: Virt devroom at FOSDEM? (Deadline MONDAY 15 September) Thread-Index: AQHPzdI7sNQeenTqjEqo8cEfiFZOnpv7ev8A Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:40:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5411BAE1.3030306@eu.citrix.com> In-Reply-To: <5411BAE1.3030306@eu.citrix.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 Content-ID: <099F383FBDC39D4496CD1271BDD4CFF9@citrix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DLP: AMS1 Subject: Re: [Publicity] Virt devroom at FOSDEM? (Deadline MONDAY 15 September) X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Here it is: it probably would need to be updated to include docker, ovirt, CentOS Virt SIG, =8A I did send this to Joe Brockmeier from RedHat who volunteered to put together a joint proposal for misc projects. If I don=B9t get tomorrow, I suggest we make a separate submission. Any feedback/suggestions/additions/=8A Would be very welcome Regards Lars Devroom name: Virtualization Dev Room Description: Open source virtualization projects today share some common components (e.g. QEMU, Linux kernel drivers, PVOPS, ...) and common challenges (e.g. UEFI and secure boot, NUMA, new architectures such as ARM - lots of new challenges around UEFI, ACPI, etc. ...). We are aiming to host a = virtualization related development room that allows virtualization related projects to = come together and provide a meeting point where developers of these projects can meet = to reinforce their cooperation. Project URLs - http://xen.org - http://www.linux-kvm.org - http://qemu.org - http://linaro.org - http://tianocore.sourceforge.net Preferred day: No preference Further information: * I was planning to make a joint submission with some other projects, but I am not sure whether this collaborative submission will be made in time * I believe there is a need at the moment to discuss some of the more lower level issues developer-to-developer that are close to the hardware and kernel compared to previous years * Last year, several virt and cloud related rooms were merged, which was good for exposure and connecting to the user base, but not so good for actual dev-to-dev collaboration and problem solving On 11/09/2014 08:08, "George Dunlap" wrote: >Hey all -- > >KB just brought to my attention that the deadline for devroom proposals >for FOSDEM this year is Monday, 15 September. I realize it's a bit of >work and hassle, and in the past Lars has ended up picking up a lot of >the work to make things happen. But on the other hand, it gives us a >good place to give useful talks about Xen; we've always had really good >attendance in the past. > >I'm not working tomorrow, but if someone has last years' submission I >could work it up and send it in Monday. > > -George _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Thu Sep 11 15:40:57 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:40:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS6US-0002wh-E1; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:40:56 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta3.messagelabs.com ([195.245.230.39]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS6UQ-0002wR-Ig for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:40:54 +0000 Received: from [85.158.137.68:54287] by server-3.bemta-3.messagelabs.com id 4F/5D-22751-582C1145; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:40:53 +0000 X-Env-Sender: lars.kurth@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-14.tower-31.messagelabs.com!1410450052!11507651!1 X-Originating-IP: [185.25.65.24] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.5 required=7.0 tests=BODY_RANDOM_LONG, ML_RADAR_SPEW_LINKS_23,spamassassin: ,received_headers: No Received headers X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 6073 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2014 15:40:53 -0000 Received: from smtp.ctxuk.citrix.com (HELO SMTP.EU.CITRIX.COM) (185.25.65.24) by server-14.tower-31.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 11 Sep 2014 15:40:53 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,506,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="24683385" From: Lars Kurth To: George Dunlap , "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" Thread-Topic: Virt devroom at FOSDEM? (Deadline MONDAY 15 September) Thread-Index: AQHPzdI7sNQeenTqjEqo8cEfiFZOnpv7ev8A Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:40:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5411BAE1.3030306@eu.citrix.com> In-Reply-To: <5411BAE1.3030306@eu.citrix.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 Content-ID: <099F383FBDC39D4496CD1271BDD4CFF9@citrix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DLP: AMS1 Subject: Re: [Publicity] Virt devroom at FOSDEM? (Deadline MONDAY 15 September) X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Here it is: it probably would need to be updated to include docker, ovirt, CentOS Virt SIG, =8A I did send this to Joe Brockmeier from RedHat who volunteered to put together a joint proposal for misc projects. If I don=B9t get tomorrow, I suggest we make a separate submission. Any feedback/suggestions/additions/=8A Would be very welcome Regards Lars Devroom name: Virtualization Dev Room Description: Open source virtualization projects today share some common components (e.g. QEMU, Linux kernel drivers, PVOPS, ...) and common challenges (e.g. UEFI and secure boot, NUMA, new architectures such as ARM - lots of new challenges around UEFI, ACPI, etc. ...). We are aiming to host a = virtualization related development room that allows virtualization related projects to = come together and provide a meeting point where developers of these projects can meet = to reinforce their cooperation. Project URLs - http://xen.org - http://www.linux-kvm.org - http://qemu.org - http://linaro.org - http://tianocore.sourceforge.net Preferred day: No preference Further information: * I was planning to make a joint submission with some other projects, but I am not sure whether this collaborative submission will be made in time * I believe there is a need at the moment to discuss some of the more lower level issues developer-to-developer that are close to the hardware and kernel compared to previous years * Last year, several virt and cloud related rooms were merged, which was good for exposure and connecting to the user base, but not so good for actual dev-to-dev collaboration and problem solving On 11/09/2014 08:08, "George Dunlap" wrote: >Hey all -- > >KB just brought to my attention that the deadline for devroom proposals >for FOSDEM this year is Monday, 15 September. I realize it's a bit of >work and hassle, and in the past Lars has ended up picking up a lot of >the work to make things happen. But on the other hand, it gives us a >good place to give useful talks about Xen; we've always had really good >attendance in the past. > >I'm not working tomorrow, but if someone has last years' submission I >could work it up and send it in Monday. > > -George _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Thu Sep 11 16:53:19 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 16:53:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS7cV-0007lD-Mx; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 16:53:19 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta4.messagelabs.com ([85.158.143.247]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS7cV-0007l6-7F for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 16:53:19 +0000 Received: from [85.158.143.35:59092] by server-1.bemta-4.messagelabs.com id B6/80-05872-E73D1145; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 16:53:18 +0000 X-Env-Sender: sconway@linuxfoundation.org X-Msg-Ref: server-14.tower-21.messagelabs.com!1410454396!13253448!1 X-Originating-IP: [74.125.82.173] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.9 required=7.0 tests=BODY_RANDOM_LONG, HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE, ML_RADAR_SPEW_LINKS_23, RCVD_BY_IP, spamassassin: X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 10847 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2014 16:53:16 -0000 Received: from mail-we0-f173.google.com (HELO mail-we0-f173.google.com) (74.125.82.173) by server-14.tower-21.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 11 Sep 2014 16:53:16 -0000 Received: by mail-we0-f173.google.com with SMTP id u56so6340604wes.32 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:53:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linuxfoundation.org; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=p+gF2qQ9abAMLPpj7O51Dh0HL17rqUaVS4CTYicX6p8=; b=B8PdHCCHOmZ9nThs36UrolEjwk8Vzis51wcMHE0OwkZVFijRxdwmsWSr2k6qU0eGvU MrQy3UcN6RS40uufWoJthlAs6h/4K2bzOmNHNE9ipurbHx3Y0GO3o9RklXxew5OOuWTo izg1d7Qop/khUhRUpxwxpcJM0LhDZZZHyyHfE= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=p+gF2qQ9abAMLPpj7O51Dh0HL17rqUaVS4CTYicX6p8=; b=b0bJZRPlGXTOGBdsS/vDVPqHz4fVM6vWk3QJS/h5St4NTdbOuMlwEupSNLX5R/yneh b1c5O4mzL5O52UoZ84B89ylaUjMDnPn21+P69hxgPBgU0EFc98bZWuwG46W4K9VIcAwN pH//uKardZK7zgiaLNManWsLHioWErt9MWww8Ova4lQjJPOHgJNVhpji27JFdPcCPZBo +Gg1XA+G+VJpOa2SJaY00J7KFphWZZ1fOr8bCbviyAhaa7Vxm+CotFK3vFXUoIH7kgvB 8wYoCcT53Hi2u2kN+mecfe1AVDd7h84V9A/ap6pTctea1YEsWxClC0OyUteY0aCUrRSR R1Sw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlngqNfBjknXWWMJTFqjrJophc64rGx+RBhs4BCI42Oub0ykir5pqiTtqnFob3KdBf6Bhq9 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.87.102 with SMTP id w6mr3287573wjz.24.1410454393640; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.45.73 with HTTP; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:53:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5411BAE1.3030306@eu.citrix.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 12:53:13 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sarah Conway To: Lars Kurth Cc: George Dunlap , "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" Subject: Re: [Publicity] Virt devroom at FOSDEM? (Deadline MONDAY 15 September) X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2918065397095688756==" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org --===============2918065397095688756== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bf198501aea820502cd01e6 --047d7bf198501aea820502cd01e6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lars, If you have buy-in from OpenStack and Red Hat already, even if Joe does't come through with a joint proposal, I'd be happy to tweak your paragraph above, send to you for review and submit it. Let me know if OpenStack and Red Hat would need to review it. That might delay things. Just let me know how/if I can help. Thanks, On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Lars Kurth wrote: > Here it is: it probably would need to be updated to include docker, ovirt= , > CentOS Virt SIG, =C5=A0 > I did send this to Joe Brockmeier from RedHat who volunteered to put > together a joint proposal for misc projects. If I don=C2=B9t get tomorrow= , I > suggest we make a separate submission. Any > feedback/suggestions/additions/=C5=A0 Would be very welcome > Regards > Lars > > Devroom name: Virtualization Dev Room > > Description: Open source virtualization projects today share some > common components (e.g. QEMU, Linux kernel drivers, PVOPS, ...) and commo= n > challenges (e.g. UEFI and secure boot, NUMA, new architectures such as > ARM - lots of new challenges around UEFI, ACPI, etc. ...). We are aiming > to host a > virtualization related development room that allows virtualization relate= d > projects to > come together and provide a meeting point where developers of these > projects can meet > to reinforce their cooperation. > > Project URLs > - http://xen.org > - http://www.linux-kvm.org > - http://qemu.org > - http://linaro.org > - http://tianocore.sourceforge.net > > Preferred day: No preference > > Further information: > * I was planning to make a joint submission with some other projects, > but I am not sure whether this collaborative submission will be made in > time > * I believe there is a need at the moment to discuss some of the more low= er > level issues developer-to-developer that are close to the hardware and > kernel > compared to previous years > * Last year, several virt and cloud related rooms were merged, which was > good > for exposure and connecting to the user base, but not so good for actual > dev-to-dev collaboration and problem solving > > > > On 11/09/2014 08:08, "George Dunlap" wrote: > > >Hey all -- > > > >KB just brought to my attention that the deadline for devroom proposals > >for FOSDEM this year is Monday, 15 September. I realize it's a bit of > >work and hassle, and in the past Lars has ended up picking up a lot of > >the work to make things happen. But on the other hand, it gives us a > >good place to give useful talks about Xen; we've always had really good > >attendance in the past. > > > >I'm not working tomorrow, but if someone has last years' submission I > >could work it up and send it in Monday. > > > > -George > > > _______________________________________________ > Publicity mailing list > Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > --=20 Sarah Conway PR Manager The Linux Foundation sconway@linuxfoundation.org (978) 578-5300 Cell Skype: sarah.k.conway --047d7bf198501aea820502cd01e6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lars,=C2=A0

If you have buy-in from Ope= nStack and Red Hat already, even if Joe does't come through with a join= t proposal, I'd be happy to tweak your paragraph above, send to you for= review and submit it. Let me know if OpenStack and Red Hat would need to r= eview it. That might delay things.=C2=A0

Just let = me know how/if I can help.

Thanks,

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 = at 11:40 AM, Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@citrix.com> wrote:
Here it is: it probably would need to be u= pdated to include docker, ovirt,
CentOS Virt SIG, =C5=A0
I did send this to Joe Brockmeier from RedHat who volunteered to put
together a joint proposal for misc projects. If I don=C2=B9t get tomorrow, = I
suggest we make a separate submission. Any
feedback/suggestions/additions/=C5=A0 Would be very welcome
Regards
Lars

Devroom name: Virtualization Dev Room

Description: Open source virtualization projects today share some
common components (e.g. QEMU, Linux kernel drivers, PVOPS, ...) and common<= br> challenges (e.g. UEFI and secure boot, NUMA, new architectures such as
ARM - lots of new challenges around UEFI, ACPI, etc. ...). We are aiming to host a
virtualization related development room that allows virtualization related<= br> projects to
come together and provide a meeting point where developers of these
projects can meet
to reinforce their cooperation.

Project URLs
- http://xen.org <http://xen.org/>
- http://www.linux-k= vm.org <http= ://www.linux-kvm.org/>
- http://qemu.org <http://qemu.org/>
- http://linaro.org <= ;http://linaro.org/>= ;
- http://tia= nocore.sourceforge.net <http://tianocore.sourceforge.net/>

Preferred day: No preference

Further information:
* I was planning to make a joint submission with some other projects,
=C2=A0but I am not sure whether this collaborative submission will be made = in
time
* I believe there is a need at the moment to discuss some of the more lower=
=C2=A0level issues developer-to-developer that are close to the hardware an= d
kernel
=C2=A0compared to previous years
* Last year, several virt and cloud related rooms were merged, which was good
=C2=A0for exposure and connecting to the user base, but not so good for act= ual
=C2=A0dev-to-dev collaboration and problem solving



On 11/09/2014 08:08, "George Dunlap" <george.dunlap@eu.citrix.com> wrote:

>Hey all --
>
>KB just brought to my attention that the deadline for devroom proposals=
>for FOSDEM this year is Monday, 15 September.=C2=A0 I realize it's = a bit of
>work and hassle, and in the past Lars has ended up picking up a lot of<= br> >the work to make things happen.=C2=A0 But on the other hand, it gives u= s a
>good place to give useful talks about Xen; we've always had really = good
>attendance in the past.
>
>I'm not working tomorrow, but if someone has last years' submis= sion I
>could work it up and send it in Monday.
>
>=C2=A0 -George


_______________________________________________
Publicity mailing list
Publicity@lists.xenprojec= t.org
http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publ= icity



--
=
Sarah Conway
PR Manager
The L= inux Foundation
sconway@linuxfoundation.org
(978) 578-5300 =C2=A0Cel= l
Skype: =C2=A0sarah.k.conway
--047d7bf198501aea820502cd01e6-- --===============2918065397095688756== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity --===============2918065397095688756==-- From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Thu Sep 11 16:53:19 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 16:53:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS7cV-0007lD-Mx; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 16:53:19 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta4.messagelabs.com ([85.158.143.247]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS7cV-0007l6-7F for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 16:53:19 +0000 Received: from [85.158.143.35:59092] by server-1.bemta-4.messagelabs.com id B6/80-05872-E73D1145; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 16:53:18 +0000 X-Env-Sender: sconway@linuxfoundation.org X-Msg-Ref: server-14.tower-21.messagelabs.com!1410454396!13253448!1 X-Originating-IP: [74.125.82.173] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.9 required=7.0 tests=BODY_RANDOM_LONG, HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE, ML_RADAR_SPEW_LINKS_23, RCVD_BY_IP, spamassassin: X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 10847 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2014 16:53:16 -0000 Received: from mail-we0-f173.google.com (HELO mail-we0-f173.google.com) (74.125.82.173) by server-14.tower-21.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 11 Sep 2014 16:53:16 -0000 Received: by mail-we0-f173.google.com with SMTP id u56so6340604wes.32 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:53:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linuxfoundation.org; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=p+gF2qQ9abAMLPpj7O51Dh0HL17rqUaVS4CTYicX6p8=; b=B8PdHCCHOmZ9nThs36UrolEjwk8Vzis51wcMHE0OwkZVFijRxdwmsWSr2k6qU0eGvU MrQy3UcN6RS40uufWoJthlAs6h/4K2bzOmNHNE9ipurbHx3Y0GO3o9RklXxew5OOuWTo izg1d7Qop/khUhRUpxwxpcJM0LhDZZZHyyHfE= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=p+gF2qQ9abAMLPpj7O51Dh0HL17rqUaVS4CTYicX6p8=; b=b0bJZRPlGXTOGBdsS/vDVPqHz4fVM6vWk3QJS/h5St4NTdbOuMlwEupSNLX5R/yneh b1c5O4mzL5O52UoZ84B89ylaUjMDnPn21+P69hxgPBgU0EFc98bZWuwG46W4K9VIcAwN pH//uKardZK7zgiaLNManWsLHioWErt9MWww8Ova4lQjJPOHgJNVhpji27JFdPcCPZBo +Gg1XA+G+VJpOa2SJaY00J7KFphWZZ1fOr8bCbviyAhaa7Vxm+CotFK3vFXUoIH7kgvB 8wYoCcT53Hi2u2kN+mecfe1AVDd7h84V9A/ap6pTctea1YEsWxClC0OyUteY0aCUrRSR R1Sw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlngqNfBjknXWWMJTFqjrJophc64rGx+RBhs4BCI42Oub0ykir5pqiTtqnFob3KdBf6Bhq9 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.87.102 with SMTP id w6mr3287573wjz.24.1410454393640; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.45.73 with HTTP; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:53:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5411BAE1.3030306@eu.citrix.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 12:53:13 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sarah Conway To: Lars Kurth Cc: George Dunlap , "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" Subject: Re: [Publicity] Virt devroom at FOSDEM? (Deadline MONDAY 15 September) X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2918065397095688756==" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org --===============2918065397095688756== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bf198501aea820502cd01e6 --047d7bf198501aea820502cd01e6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lars, If you have buy-in from OpenStack and Red Hat already, even if Joe does't come through with a joint proposal, I'd be happy to tweak your paragraph above, send to you for review and submit it. Let me know if OpenStack and Red Hat would need to review it. That might delay things. Just let me know how/if I can help. Thanks, On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Lars Kurth wrote: > Here it is: it probably would need to be updated to include docker, ovirt= , > CentOS Virt SIG, =C5=A0 > I did send this to Joe Brockmeier from RedHat who volunteered to put > together a joint proposal for misc projects. If I don=C2=B9t get tomorrow= , I > suggest we make a separate submission. Any > feedback/suggestions/additions/=C5=A0 Would be very welcome > Regards > Lars > > Devroom name: Virtualization Dev Room > > Description: Open source virtualization projects today share some > common components (e.g. QEMU, Linux kernel drivers, PVOPS, ...) and commo= n > challenges (e.g. UEFI and secure boot, NUMA, new architectures such as > ARM - lots of new challenges around UEFI, ACPI, etc. ...). We are aiming > to host a > virtualization related development room that allows virtualization relate= d > projects to > come together and provide a meeting point where developers of these > projects can meet > to reinforce their cooperation. > > Project URLs > - http://xen.org > - http://www.linux-kvm.org > - http://qemu.org > - http://linaro.org > - http://tianocore.sourceforge.net > > Preferred day: No preference > > Further information: > * I was planning to make a joint submission with some other projects, > but I am not sure whether this collaborative submission will be made in > time > * I believe there is a need at the moment to discuss some of the more low= er > level issues developer-to-developer that are close to the hardware and > kernel > compared to previous years > * Last year, several virt and cloud related rooms were merged, which was > good > for exposure and connecting to the user base, but not so good for actual > dev-to-dev collaboration and problem solving > > > > On 11/09/2014 08:08, "George Dunlap" wrote: > > >Hey all -- > > > >KB just brought to my attention that the deadline for devroom proposals > >for FOSDEM this year is Monday, 15 September. I realize it's a bit of > >work and hassle, and in the past Lars has ended up picking up a lot of > >the work to make things happen. But on the other hand, it gives us a > >good place to give useful talks about Xen; we've always had really good > >attendance in the past. > > > >I'm not working tomorrow, but if someone has last years' submission I > >could work it up and send it in Monday. > > > > -George > > > _______________________________________________ > Publicity mailing list > Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity > --=20 Sarah Conway PR Manager The Linux Foundation sconway@linuxfoundation.org (978) 578-5300 Cell Skype: sarah.k.conway --047d7bf198501aea820502cd01e6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lars,=C2=A0

If you have buy-in from Ope= nStack and Red Hat already, even if Joe does't come through with a join= t proposal, I'd be happy to tweak your paragraph above, send to you for= review and submit it. Let me know if OpenStack and Red Hat would need to r= eview it. That might delay things.=C2=A0

Just let = me know how/if I can help.

Thanks,

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 = at 11:40 AM, Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@citrix.com> wrote:
Here it is: it probably would need to be u= pdated to include docker, ovirt,
CentOS Virt SIG, =C5=A0
I did send this to Joe Brockmeier from RedHat who volunteered to put
together a joint proposal for misc projects. If I don=C2=B9t get tomorrow, = I
suggest we make a separate submission. Any
feedback/suggestions/additions/=C5=A0 Would be very welcome
Regards
Lars

Devroom name: Virtualization Dev Room

Description: Open source virtualization projects today share some
common components (e.g. QEMU, Linux kernel drivers, PVOPS, ...) and common<= br> challenges (e.g. UEFI and secure boot, NUMA, new architectures such as
ARM - lots of new challenges around UEFI, ACPI, etc. ...). We are aiming to host a
virtualization related development room that allows virtualization related<= br> projects to
come together and provide a meeting point where developers of these
projects can meet
to reinforce their cooperation.

Project URLs
- http://xen.org <http://xen.org/>
- http://www.linux-k= vm.org <http= ://www.linux-kvm.org/>
- http://qemu.org <http://qemu.org/>
- http://linaro.org <= ;http://linaro.org/>= ;
- http://tia= nocore.sourceforge.net <http://tianocore.sourceforge.net/>

Preferred day: No preference

Further information:
* I was planning to make a joint submission with some other projects,
=C2=A0but I am not sure whether this collaborative submission will be made = in
time
* I believe there is a need at the moment to discuss some of the more lower=
=C2=A0level issues developer-to-developer that are close to the hardware an= d
kernel
=C2=A0compared to previous years
* Last year, several virt and cloud related rooms were merged, which was good
=C2=A0for exposure and connecting to the user base, but not so good for act= ual
=C2=A0dev-to-dev collaboration and problem solving



On 11/09/2014 08:08, "George Dunlap" <george.dunlap@eu.citrix.com> wrote:

>Hey all --
>
>KB just brought to my attention that the deadline for devroom proposals=
>for FOSDEM this year is Monday, 15 September.=C2=A0 I realize it's = a bit of
>work and hassle, and in the past Lars has ended up picking up a lot of<= br> >the work to make things happen.=C2=A0 But on the other hand, it gives u= s a
>good place to give useful talks about Xen; we've always had really = good
>attendance in the past.
>
>I'm not working tomorrow, but if someone has last years' submis= sion I
>could work it up and send it in Monday.
>
>=C2=A0 -George


_______________________________________________
Publicity mailing list
Publicity@lists.xenprojec= t.org
http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publ= icity



--
=
Sarah Conway
PR Manager
The L= inux Foundation
sconway@linuxfoundation.org
(978) 578-5300 =C2=A0Cel= l
Skype: =C2=A0sarah.k.conway
--047d7bf198501aea820502cd01e6-- --===============2918065397095688756== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity --===============2918065397095688756==-- From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Thu Sep 11 17:33:13 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:33:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS8F5-0001oZ-VK; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:33:11 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta14.messagelabs.com ([193.109.254.103]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS8F4-0001oU-EK for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:33:10 +0000 Received: from [193.109.254.147:15979] by server-7.bemta-14.messagelabs.com id F1/57-13362-5DCD1145; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:33:09 +0000 X-Env-Sender: lars.kurth@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-4.tower-27.messagelabs.com!1410456787!15004042!1 X-Originating-IP: [185.25.65.24] X-SpamReason: No, hits=1.1 required=7.0 tests=BODY_RANDOM_LONG, HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE,ML_RADAR_SPEW_LINKS_23,spamassassin: , received_headers: No Received headers X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 29466 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2014 17:33:07 -0000 Received: from smtp.ctxuk.citrix.com (HELO SMTP.EU.CITRIX.COM) (185.25.65.24) by server-4.tower-27.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 11 Sep 2014 17:33:07 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,506,1406592000"; d="scan'208,217";a="24686504" From: Lars Kurth To: Sarah Conway Thread-Topic: [Publicity] Virt devroom at FOSDEM? (Deadline MONDAY 15 September) Thread-Index: AQHPzdI7sNQeenTqjEqo8cEfiFZOnpv7ev8AgACJlYD//5XHAA== Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:33:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5411BAE1.3030306@eu.citrix.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DLP: AMS1 Cc: George Dunlap , "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" Subject: Re: [Publicity] Virt devroom at FOSDEM? 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http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity --===============0025164879528227480==-- From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Thu Sep 11 17:33:13 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:33:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS8F5-0001oZ-VK; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:33:11 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta14.messagelabs.com ([193.109.254.103]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XS8F4-0001oU-EK for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:33:10 +0000 Received: from [193.109.254.147:15979] by server-7.bemta-14.messagelabs.com id F1/57-13362-5DCD1145; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:33:09 +0000 X-Env-Sender: lars.kurth@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-4.tower-27.messagelabs.com!1410456787!15004042!1 X-Originating-IP: [185.25.65.24] X-SpamReason: No, hits=1.1 required=7.0 tests=BODY_RANDOM_LONG, HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE,ML_RADAR_SPEW_LINKS_23,spamassassin: , received_headers: No Received headers X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.11.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 29466 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2014 17:33:07 -0000 Received: from smtp.ctxuk.citrix.com (HELO SMTP.EU.CITRIX.COM) (185.25.65.24) by server-4.tower-27.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 11 Sep 2014 17:33:07 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,506,1406592000"; d="scan'208,217";a="24686504" From: Lars Kurth To: Sarah Conway Thread-Topic: [Publicity] Virt devroom at FOSDEM? (Deadline MONDAY 15 September) Thread-Index: AQHPzdI7sNQeenTqjEqo8cEfiFZOnpv7ev8AgACJlYD//5XHAA== Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:33:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5411BAE1.3030306@eu.citrix.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DLP: AMS1 Cc: George Dunlap , "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" Subject: Re: [Publicity] Virt devroom at FOSDEM? 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[151.229.83.206]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id eg8sm6057130wib.15.2014.09.24.08.01.52 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:01:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Lars Kurth Message-Id: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 16:01:49 +0100 To: publicity@lists.xenproject.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Subject: [Publicity] FOSDEM Main track submission deadline coming up Oct 1st X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1593092710115265750==" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org --===============1593092710115265750== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8CDD9B85-95F6-4122-BB89-C3C91317DADB" --Apple-Mail=_8CDD9B85-95F6-4122-BB89-C3C91317DADB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii https://fosdem.org/2015/news/2014-07-01-call-for-participation/ --Apple-Mail=_8CDD9B85-95F6-4122-BB89-C3C91317DADB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii  https://fosdem.org/2015/news/2014-07-01-call-for-participation/ --Apple-Mail=_8CDD9B85-95F6-4122-BB89-C3C91317DADB-- --===============1593092710115265750== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity --===============1593092710115265750==-- From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Wed Sep 24 15:01:56 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 15:01:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XWo4q-0005wn-IX; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 15:01:56 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta14.messagelabs.com ([193.109.254.103]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XWo4p-0005wY-1H for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 15:01:55 +0000 Received: from [193.109.254.147:53739] by server-1.bemta-14.messagelabs.com id AD/B1-24760-2ECD2245; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 15:01:54 +0000 X-Env-Sender: lars.kurth.xen@gmail.com X-Msg-Ref: server-2.tower-27.messagelabs.com!1411570913!12771599!1 X-Originating-IP: [74.125.82.46] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, ML_RADAR_SPEW_LINKS_14,spamassassin: X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.12.2; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 22824 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2014 15:01:53 -0000 Received: from mail-wg0-f46.google.com (HELO mail-wg0-f46.google.com) (74.125.82.46) by server-2.tower-27.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 24 Sep 2014 15:01:53 -0000 Received: by mail-wg0-f46.google.com with SMTP id a1so6038880wgh.17 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:01:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:subject:message-id:date:to:mime-version; bh=WB1JVmSJXwVqF85t37UOsu/PMW+vlptYOZe1U2Zspig=; b=ZrMv/P2A9r9g8P/GaQyU8LAlcg8XZGVsBybh5pXK+D8uiJiyflmDSddvU5mrRR2q00 91ZgVxqzcqi1RRTgVbwDJCduERMQA+aoFzRceSIJViK5TNT7XfP3BqocJ4uDOT1Jmb0J DaPmGLPzkGo85H+jOLLa6QSUf2A8VlOoxUMFn+SJeKnlZbHiGzDzBLeUHAUx/Jpv9S+V sZ4kxuPnlbdZLBjEF6y0M8wPg5upf3RC7je5JTnQOft9m5iAvYasxgQWOvhoDn6osQ1q 7uZxiBYn2O2UCXAoKMgWSjR8n+SwCAL95agPgrijMRYRZcEVRrT2No21zjGjNT0OjmwE dqfw== X-Received: by 10.180.11.234 with SMTP id t10mr11972837wib.49.1411570913333; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.25] (97e553ce.skybroadband.com. [151.229.83.206]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id eg8sm6057130wib.15.2014.09.24.08.01.52 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:01:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Lars Kurth Message-Id: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 16:01:49 +0100 To: publicity@lists.xenproject.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Subject: [Publicity] FOSDEM Main track submission deadline coming up Oct 1st X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1593092710115265750==" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org --===============1593092710115265750== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8CDD9B85-95F6-4122-BB89-C3C91317DADB" --Apple-Mail=_8CDD9B85-95F6-4122-BB89-C3C91317DADB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii https://fosdem.org/2015/news/2014-07-01-call-for-participation/ --Apple-Mail=_8CDD9B85-95F6-4122-BB89-C3C91317DADB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii  https://fosdem.org/2015/news/2014-07-01-call-for-participation/ --Apple-Mail=_8CDD9B85-95F6-4122-BB89-C3C91317DADB-- --===============1593092710115265750== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity --===============1593092710115265750==-- From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Thu Sep 25 16:54:30 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 16:54:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XXCJK-0005Aj-3A; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 16:54:30 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta3.messagelabs.com ([195.245.230.39]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XXCJI-0005Ae-OJ for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 16:54:28 +0000 Received: from [85.158.137.68:27441] by server-10.bemta-3.messagelabs.com id 01/2D-01456-4C844245; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 16:54:28 +0000 X-Env-Sender: George.Dunlap@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-6.tower-31.messagelabs.com!1411664066!7632291!1 X-Originating-IP: [66.165.176.89] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests=sa_preprocessor: VHJ1c3RlZCBJUDogNjYuMTY1LjE3Ni44OSA9PiAyMDMwMDc=\n X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.12.2; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 19285 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2014 16:54:27 -0000 Received: from smtp.citrix.com (HELO SMTP.CITRIX.COM) (66.165.176.89) by server-6.tower-31.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 25 Sep 2014 16:54:27 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,598,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="175179145" Received: from ukmail1.uk.xensource.com (10.80.16.128) by smtprelay.citrix.com (10.13.107.78) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.181.6; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:54:24 -0400 Received: from elijah.uk.xensource.com ([10.80.2.24]) by ukmail1.uk.xensource.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XXCJE-00059v-Sy for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 17:54:24 +0100 Message-ID: <542448A5.5020805@eu.citrix.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 17:53:57 +0100 From: George Dunlap User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" X-DLP: MIA1 Subject: [Publicity] FOSDEM abstract X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org So below is the abstract I submitted to LinuxCon. Is it OK to submit it mostly as-is to FOSDEM, or do I need to change it sufficiently to look like a different talk? It almost certainly *will* be a different talk, with more time to prepare, different audience, different time frame, &c... just the basic idea will be the same. -George Security in the Cloud: Containers, KVM, and Xen Abstract In our interconnected world of mobile and cloud computing, particularly with the rise of governmental spying, corporate espionage, and theft of data by organized crime syndicates, security is more important than ever. Many claims are being made about the security of open-source cloud technologies: How can administrators, users, and developers separate fact from fiction? This talk will equip the audience with the principles needed to evaluate security claims. We will talk the nature of risk, of vulnerabilities and exploits; the various factors that reduce the risk of vulnerabilities in software; and about TCB, threat models, and defense-in-depth. We will then apply these principles to three open-source cloud technologies: containers, KVM, and Xen, to see how they stack up. These will be backed up with numbers: lines of code, security advisories, entry points, and so on. _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Thu Sep 25 16:54:30 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 16:54:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XXCJK-0005Aj-3A; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 16:54:30 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta3.messagelabs.com ([195.245.230.39]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XXCJI-0005Ae-OJ for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 16:54:28 +0000 Received: from [85.158.137.68:27441] by server-10.bemta-3.messagelabs.com id 01/2D-01456-4C844245; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 16:54:28 +0000 X-Env-Sender: George.Dunlap@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-6.tower-31.messagelabs.com!1411664066!7632291!1 X-Originating-IP: [66.165.176.89] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests=sa_preprocessor: VHJ1c3RlZCBJUDogNjYuMTY1LjE3Ni44OSA9PiAyMDMwMDc=\n X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.12.2; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 19285 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2014 16:54:27 -0000 Received: from smtp.citrix.com (HELO SMTP.CITRIX.COM) (66.165.176.89) by server-6.tower-31.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 25 Sep 2014 16:54:27 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,598,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="175179145" Received: from ukmail1.uk.xensource.com (10.80.16.128) by smtprelay.citrix.com (10.13.107.78) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.181.6; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:54:24 -0400 Received: from elijah.uk.xensource.com ([10.80.2.24]) by ukmail1.uk.xensource.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XXCJE-00059v-Sy for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 17:54:24 +0100 Message-ID: <542448A5.5020805@eu.citrix.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 17:53:57 +0100 From: George Dunlap User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" X-DLP: MIA1 Subject: [Publicity] FOSDEM abstract X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org So below is the abstract I submitted to LinuxCon. Is it OK to submit it mostly as-is to FOSDEM, or do I need to change it sufficiently to look like a different talk? It almost certainly *will* be a different talk, with more time to prepare, different audience, different time frame, &c... just the basic idea will be the same. -George Security in the Cloud: Containers, KVM, and Xen Abstract In our interconnected world of mobile and cloud computing, particularly with the rise of governmental spying, corporate espionage, and theft of data by organized crime syndicates, security is more important than ever. Many claims are being made about the security of open-source cloud technologies: How can administrators, users, and developers separate fact from fiction? This talk will equip the audience with the principles needed to evaluate security claims. We will talk the nature of risk, of vulnerabilities and exploits; the various factors that reduce the risk of vulnerabilities in software; and about TCB, threat models, and defense-in-depth. We will then apply these principles to three open-source cloud technologies: containers, KVM, and Xen, to see how they stack up. These will be backed up with numbers: lines of code, security advisories, entry points, and so on. _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Tue Sep 30 13:42:12 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:42:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XYxgw-0001Ar-W9; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:42:10 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta3.messagelabs.com ([195.245.230.39]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XYxgv-0001Am-IF for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:42:09 +0000 Received: from [85.158.137.68:61594] by server-7.bemta-3.messagelabs.com id 3E/A5-01084-033BA245; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:42:08 +0000 X-Env-Sender: George.Dunlap@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-16.tower-31.messagelabs.com!1412084525!12948480!1 X-Originating-IP: [66.165.176.63] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests=sa_preprocessor: VHJ1c3RlZCBJUDogNjYuMTY1LjE3Ni42MyA9PiAzMDYwNDg=\n X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.12.2; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 32762 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2014 13:42:08 -0000 Received: from smtp02.citrix.com (HELO SMTP02.CITRIX.COM) (66.165.176.63) by server-16.tower-31.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 30 Sep 2014 13:42:08 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,626,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="177564070" Received: from ukmail1.uk.xensource.com (10.80.16.128) by smtprelay.citrix.com (10.13.107.78) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.181.6; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 09:42:03 -0400 Received: from elijah.uk.xensource.com ([10.80.2.24]) by ukmail1.uk.xensource.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XYxgo-0002B1-PD; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 14:42:02 +0100 Message-ID: <542AB308.2070306@eu.citrix.com> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 14:41:28 +0100 From: George Dunlap User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: , Lars Kurth , Stefano Stabellini , Ian Campbell References: <542448A5.5020805@eu.citrix.com> In-Reply-To: <542448A5.5020805@eu.citrix.com> X-DLP: MIA1 Subject: Re: [Publicity] FOSDEM abstract X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org I've submitted the following submission as a FOSDEM main track talk. Submission deadline is tomorrow, so let me know if you have any suggestions for changes. -George * Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse: Containers, KVM, Xen, and Security Abstract In our interconnected world of mobile and cloud computing, particularly with the rise of governmental spying, corporate espionage, and theft of data by organized crime syndicates, security is more important than ever. Many claims are being made about the security of open-source cloud technologies: How can administrators, users, and developers separate fact from fiction? This talk will equip the audience with the principles needed to evaluate security claims. We will talk the nature of risk, of vulnerabilities and exploits; the various factors that reduce the risk of vulnerabilities in software; and about TCB, threat models, and defense-in-depth. And we will introduce a colorful and (hopefully) helpful analogy to help make these concepts more clear. We will then apply these principles to three open-source cloud technologies: containers, KVM, and Xen, to see how they stack up. These will be backed up with numbers: lines of code, security advisories, entry points, and so on. On 09/25/2014 05:53 PM, George Dunlap wrote: > So below is the abstract I submitted to LinuxCon. Is it OK to submit > it mostly as-is to FOSDEM, or do I need to change it sufficiently to > look like a different talk? > > It almost certainly *will* be a different talk, with more time to > prepare, different audience, different time frame, &c... just the > basic idea will be the same. > > -George > > Security in the Cloud: Containers, KVM, and Xen > > Abstract > > In our interconnected world of mobile and cloud computing, > particularly with the rise of governmental spying, corporate > espionage, and theft of data by organized crime syndicates, security > is more important than ever. Many claims are being made about the > security of open-source cloud technologies: How can administrators, > users, and developers separate fact from fiction? > > This talk will equip the audience with the principles needed to > evaluate security claims. We will talk the nature of risk, of > vulnerabilities and exploits; the various factors that reduce the risk > of vulnerabilities in software; and about TCB, threat models, and > defense-in-depth. > > We will then apply these principles to three open-source cloud > technologies: containers, KVM, and Xen, to see how they stack up. > These will be backed up with numbers: lines of code, security > advisories, entry points, and so on. > > > _______________________________________________ > Publicity mailing list > Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Tue Sep 30 13:42:12 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:42:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XYxgw-0001Ar-W9; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:42:10 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta3.messagelabs.com ([195.245.230.39]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XYxgv-0001Am-IF for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:42:09 +0000 Received: from [85.158.137.68:61594] by server-7.bemta-3.messagelabs.com id 3E/A5-01084-033BA245; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:42:08 +0000 X-Env-Sender: George.Dunlap@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-16.tower-31.messagelabs.com!1412084525!12948480!1 X-Originating-IP: [66.165.176.63] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests=sa_preprocessor: VHJ1c3RlZCBJUDogNjYuMTY1LjE3Ni42MyA9PiAzMDYwNDg=\n X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.12.2; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 32762 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2014 13:42:08 -0000 Received: from smtp02.citrix.com (HELO SMTP02.CITRIX.COM) (66.165.176.63) by server-16.tower-31.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 30 Sep 2014 13:42:08 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,626,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="177564070" Received: from ukmail1.uk.xensource.com (10.80.16.128) by smtprelay.citrix.com (10.13.107.78) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.181.6; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 09:42:03 -0400 Received: from elijah.uk.xensource.com ([10.80.2.24]) by ukmail1.uk.xensource.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XYxgo-0002B1-PD; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 14:42:02 +0100 Message-ID: <542AB308.2070306@eu.citrix.com> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 14:41:28 +0100 From: George Dunlap User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: , Lars Kurth , Stefano Stabellini , Ian Campbell References: <542448A5.5020805@eu.citrix.com> In-Reply-To: <542448A5.5020805@eu.citrix.com> X-DLP: MIA1 Subject: Re: [Publicity] FOSDEM abstract X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org I've submitted the following submission as a FOSDEM main track talk. Submission deadline is tomorrow, so let me know if you have any suggestions for changes. -George * Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse: Containers, KVM, Xen, and Security Abstract In our interconnected world of mobile and cloud computing, particularly with the rise of governmental spying, corporate espionage, and theft of data by organized crime syndicates, security is more important than ever. Many claims are being made about the security of open-source cloud technologies: How can administrators, users, and developers separate fact from fiction? This talk will equip the audience with the principles needed to evaluate security claims. We will talk the nature of risk, of vulnerabilities and exploits; the various factors that reduce the risk of vulnerabilities in software; and about TCB, threat models, and defense-in-depth. And we will introduce a colorful and (hopefully) helpful analogy to help make these concepts more clear. We will then apply these principles to three open-source cloud technologies: containers, KVM, and Xen, to see how they stack up. These will be backed up with numbers: lines of code, security advisories, entry points, and so on. On 09/25/2014 05:53 PM, George Dunlap wrote: > So below is the abstract I submitted to LinuxCon. Is it OK to submit > it mostly as-is to FOSDEM, or do I need to change it sufficiently to > look like a different talk? > > It almost certainly *will* be a different talk, with more time to > prepare, different audience, different time frame, &c... just the > basic idea will be the same. > > -George > > Security in the Cloud: Containers, KVM, and Xen > > Abstract > > In our interconnected world of mobile and cloud computing, > particularly with the rise of governmental spying, corporate > espionage, and theft of data by organized crime syndicates, security > is more important than ever. Many claims are being made about the > security of open-source cloud technologies: How can administrators, > users, and developers separate fact from fiction? > > This talk will equip the audience with the principles needed to > evaluate security claims. We will talk the nature of risk, of > vulnerabilities and exploits; the various factors that reduce the risk > of vulnerabilities in software; and about TCB, threat models, and > defense-in-depth. > > We will then apply these principles to three open-source cloud > technologies: containers, KVM, and Xen, to see how they stack up. > These will be backed up with numbers: lines of code, security > advisories, entry points, and so on. > > > _______________________________________________ > Publicity mailing list > Publicity@lists.xenproject.org > http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Tue Sep 30 17:06:49 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:06:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XZ0sy-0003bL-2e; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:06:48 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta14.messagelabs.com ([193.109.254.103]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XZ0sx-0003bG-1D for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:06:47 +0000 Received: from [193.109.254.147:54178] by server-3.bemta-14.messagelabs.com id BD/AF-23707-623EA245; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:06:46 +0000 X-Env-Sender: George.Dunlap@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-4.tower-27.messagelabs.com!1412096804!12555710!1 X-Originating-IP: [66.165.176.63] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests=sa_preprocessor: VHJ1c3RlZCBJUDogNjYuMTY1LjE3Ni42MyA9PiAzMDYwNDg=\n X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.12.2; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 14820 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2014 17:06:45 -0000 Received: from smtp02.citrix.com (HELO SMTP02.CITRIX.COM) (66.165.176.63) by server-4.tower-27.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 30 Sep 2014 17:06:45 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,627,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="177677236" Received: from ukmail1.uk.xensource.com (10.80.16.128) by smtprelay.citrix.com (10.13.107.78) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.181.6; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:06:41 -0400 Received: from elijah.uk.xensource.com ([10.80.2.24]) by ukmail1.uk.xensource.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XZ0sq-0005VZ-TF; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 18:06:40 +0100 Message-ID: <542AE2FE.2070807@eu.citrix.com> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 18:06:06 +0100 From: George Dunlap User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" , "kbsingh@karan.org" X-DLP: MIA2 Subject: [Publicity] FOSDEM talk on CentOS SIGs X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Below is a draft of my submission to FOSDEM for a main track talk on CentOS SIGs. Let me know what you think -- the deadline for submission is tomorrow. Peace, -George * CentOS SIGs: Community packages on an immutable core CentOS is a "distribution" with a rather unique description: it is a free (gratis) clone of a commercially-supported distribution with all the branding removed. Being enterprise-grade distribution means solid, well-tested, and slow-moving; but it also means not having the latest functionality. It also means having a small enough feature set to provide commercial support in a viable manner: and that typically means choosing one technology and sticking with it. But what if you wanted your entire system to be solid, well-tested, and slow-moving, *except* for one particular package or program? Or what if you really wanted an enterprise system, but wanted to use one of the alternate technoloies that were not selected? This is where CentOS SIGs come in. The new CentOS is still at its core a clone of an upstream enterprise distribution. But having had success with the Xen4CentOS project, which provided a version of Xen to run on CentOS 6, they have now generalized the process. This talk will talk about CentOS SIGs, and compare and contrast them to other community distro development models like Fedora, OpenSuSE, Debian, Ubuntu, and so forth. _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity From publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Tue Sep 30 17:06:49 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: archives@lists.xenproject.org Delivery-date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:06:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xen.org) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XZ0sy-0003bL-2e; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:06:48 +0000 Received: from mail6.bemta14.messagelabs.com ([193.109.254.103]) by lists.xen.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XZ0sx-0003bG-1D for publicity@lists.xenproject.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:06:47 +0000 Received: from [193.109.254.147:54178] by server-3.bemta-14.messagelabs.com id BD/AF-23707-623EA245; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:06:46 +0000 X-Env-Sender: George.Dunlap@citrix.com X-Msg-Ref: server-4.tower-27.messagelabs.com!1412096804!12555710!1 X-Originating-IP: [66.165.176.63] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests=sa_preprocessor: VHJ1c3RlZCBJUDogNjYuMTY1LjE3Ni42MyA9PiAzMDYwNDg=\n X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.12.2; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 14820 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2014 17:06:45 -0000 Received: from smtp02.citrix.com (HELO SMTP02.CITRIX.COM) (66.165.176.63) by server-4.tower-27.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 30 Sep 2014 17:06:45 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,627,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="177677236" Received: from ukmail1.uk.xensource.com (10.80.16.128) by smtprelay.citrix.com (10.13.107.78) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.181.6; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:06:41 -0400 Received: from elijah.uk.xensource.com ([10.80.2.24]) by ukmail1.uk.xensource.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XZ0sq-0005VZ-TF; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 18:06:40 +0100 Message-ID: <542AE2FE.2070807@eu.citrix.com> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 18:06:06 +0100 From: George Dunlap User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "publicity@lists.xenproject.org" , "kbsingh@karan.org" X-DLP: MIA2 Subject: [Publicity] FOSDEM talk on CentOS SIGs X-BeenThere: publicity@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for Xen Publicity, PR and events" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Errors-To: publicity-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Below is a draft of my submission to FOSDEM for a main track talk on CentOS SIGs. Let me know what you think -- the deadline for submission is tomorrow. Peace, -George * CentOS SIGs: Community packages on an immutable core CentOS is a "distribution" with a rather unique description: it is a free (gratis) clone of a commercially-supported distribution with all the branding removed. Being enterprise-grade distribution means solid, well-tested, and slow-moving; but it also means not having the latest functionality. It also means having a small enough feature set to provide commercial support in a viable manner: and that typically means choosing one technology and sticking with it. But what if you wanted your entire system to be solid, well-tested, and slow-moving, *except* for one particular package or program? Or what if you really wanted an enterprise system, but wanted to use one of the alternate technoloies that were not selected? This is where CentOS SIGs come in. The new CentOS is still at its core a clone of an upstream enterprise distribution. But having had success with the Xen4CentOS project, which provided a version of Xen to run on CentOS 6, they have now generalized the process. This talk will talk about CentOS SIGs, and compare and contrast them to other community distro development models like Fedora, OpenSuSE, Debian, Ubuntu, and so forth. _______________________________________________ Publicity mailing list Publicity@lists.xenproject.org http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity