Re: [Xen-users] Anything come close to esx for xen?

["lists@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <lists@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Thomas, you completely misunderstood my point. I am certainly not criticizing 
xen in any way what so ever and if it sounded that way, it wasn't intended and 
is why I said I was just thinking out loud :).

> to me) when the open source Xen is "just" a kernel. You would have to
> search for other projects that are aiming at providing a graphical
> interface for Xen.

Problem is, it's not only the techs using these things. At some point, once I 
set something up, I run out of time to maintain it all so need to hand it off 
to someone. Not everyone is as technical as you'd like them to be so there very 
much is a requirement to have simple, easy to understand, web based tools for 
administration etc. Not so much pretty gui but web tools are usually pretty 
easy compared to command line for non techs.
 
> It's just not right to criticize the open source Xen, saying that it
> doesn't offer the ease of the graphical interface you are using with
> ESX, simply because that is absolutely not what the project does or
> aims. Another project (existing or not as of writing) USING Xen should.
> And you shouldn't do the confusion.

Again, I'm not criticizing, I was wishing :). I like using real open source as 
much as possible because I want to have choices. I've been around since the 
Internet started going public in a big way and have seen how things have 
changed. It's sad to see commercial beat down the energy of development which 
has been the case since mid 90's or so. I saw what was an incredibly vibrant 
community, Internet developers, working on countless projects and was part of 
that myself. Then I saw the telco's slowly gathering speed, stomping everyone 
and everything in it's path in it's bid to become the ONLY provider to 
everyone. Remember Enron?

My point is simply that I very much want clear lines between commercial and non 
commercial. I'm finding that it's easy to get sucked into something which says 
one thing then becomes another when the longer term goals become obvious.
 
> That being said, I do agree that such nice app would be a good thing.
> Did you try some of the existing projects like Enomalism or others?

I've looked at all of the leads I've been given. My wife even started a web 
site to help xen users to find xen related goodies. Problem is time. It took 
minutes to install ESX and it's ready to use. I would prefer using xen but as 
it's not a turn-key thing right now, I'll end up using ESX for some things, xen 
for others, which is what I expected anyhow.
 
> As I pointed out earlier, it's just not right to say Xen == Citrix. Just
> as it's not right either to say Linux == Linus Torvalds. Xen is owned by
> all the contributors. There is NOTHING Citrix can do to change this,
> they can't take away the license, it's just not legal.

Never said anything along those lines and if I did, it must be in how I typed 
it because I agree.
 
> So why do you think that "free open source [will] bite [you] at some
> point"? Just use the open source part, and reject anything commercial
> that could be added on top, like many (including myself) are doing here.
> If you can, contribute to existing projects to enhance them, and you
> will be in the spirit.

I cannot contribute in the programming but my contribution has been the same 
since the early 90's. Use open source tools any time possible over commercial 
so that in the long run, we ALL have options and choices. I would hate to see a 
world of Microsoft only products which it has tried to do over and over again.

As for why I feel it can bite me, as I said, over the years, I've seen 
countless projects start out as 'free', open source, and eventually once they 
built up momentum, turn into fully commercial products. That's fine in some 
ways, but better would be companies that at least tell you that they will 
always have an open source version with pretty much all features over limited 
features. Take a look at RedHat, SugarCRM, Asterisk, Trixbox, countless others 
like these guys, that's what I'm talking about. They absolutely have commercial 
sides to them but they have the fully open, unlimited versions as well.

Hope the misunderstanding is no longer there.

Mike



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