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Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels



Given the recent Docker and VMWare hype, which pretty much seems to be about very little – aka running Docker within VMWare containers and some tools integration. A concept that both AWS and Google have completed a while back, I agree with Russell here. I am not sure how effective it will be, but we should try
Lars 

From: Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wednesday, 27 August 2014 06:01
To: Sarah Conway <sconway@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Libby Clark <lclark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@xxxxxxxxxx>, George Dunlap <george.dunlap@xxxxxxxxxx>, "publicity@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <publicity@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels

Sarah/Libby,

I've attached a slightly modified post.

I'd rather see this in Linux.com rather than XenProject.org so it won't be mistaken as an "official" Xen Project position.

Regarding Amir's comments:

I've finally had the time to give your comments the consideration they are do.  And, while I see your argument and look forward to your development of the concept into a substantial article somewhere (and I am sure the XenProject.org blog will be happy to publish that piece when you have it completed), I don't feel I should severely modify the piece I've written.

Amir is rightly concerned that my post will be perceived as a (rather myopic) official position paper.  In fact, it is nothing of the sort.  I've written many such pieces over the years to call out what I perceive as dangerous errors in a populist "hive mind" position.  The purpose of the piece is to cry, "Whoa!" to a team of horses which are in danger of inciting an ill-considered stampede.  The carefully detailed whitepapers describing a meticulous counter proposal are still needed, but they will not be heeded until the crowd in motion slows down enough to read.

My piece is the cry to slow things down.  I look forward to Amir's piece (and others) which give us a reasoned argument for a better direction.  But those pieces will be ignored and trampled unless we can first halt the stampede and get people to slow down enough to heed reason.

Amir, I have pitched a talk for CPOSC in November about the rise of the unikernel.  I'd be thrilled to see how your workflow justification matures so I can possibly incorporate elements of your thought into that talk (with attribution),  I believe a talk like that would be an excellent place to introduce a more logical positioning of unikernels.

Russ Pavlicek
Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
Mobile: +1-301-814-1143
UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894

From: Russell Pavlicek
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 4:10 PM
To: Sarah Conway; Libby Clark
Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels

Sarah,

Let me see what I can do this evening on this.

Thanks,

Russ Pavlicek
Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894

From: publicity-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [publicity-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] on behalf of Sarah Conway [sconway@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:48 PM
To: Libby Clark
Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels

Hi Russ,

Do you have a revised, updated blog to share? If so, please email it so I can review it again. Might want to publish today or tomorrow to catch some of the VMWorld momentum. 



On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Libby Clark <lclark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Happy to run on Linux.com if it suits you, Lars.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 20, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I thought about it and it would be ok on our blog. But we are sort of preaching to the converted there, so another channel may be better
> Lars
> ________________________________________
> From: Tzach Livyatan [tzach@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 20 August 2014 10:06
> To: Russell Pavlicek
> Cc: Anil Madhavapeddy; Libby Clark; Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; publicity@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Publicity] A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 5:42 AM, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:russell.pavlicek@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> Revised version.  I've added Libby (whom I saw in the lobby earlier) and the Publicity list.  New title.
>
> Lars has indicated he wants this divorced from the Xen Project blog, since it has the potential to irritate some people.  I'm fine with that; I irritated people on my own for years.  ;)
>
> I have a feeling someone in the 11:15 AM slot tomorrow will make this piece necessary.
>
> Comments?
> Good post.
> Just wanted to point a related 3 parts post from the OSv blog
> http://osv.io/blog/blog/2014/06/19/containers-hypervisors-part-1/
>
>
> Russ Pavlicek
> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327<tel:%2B1-301-829-5327>
> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199<tel:%2B1-240-397-0199>
> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894<tel:%2B44%201223%20852%20894>
> ________________________________
> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:anil@xxxxxxxxxx>]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 9:55 AM
> To: Russell Pavlicek
> Cc: Lars Kurth; George Dunlap; sconway@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:sconway@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels
>
> I need a cup of tea now...
>
> On 19 Aug 2014, at 08:52, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:russell.pavlicek@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
> Splendid thank you!
>
> And as to the aggressive tone: welcome to America! ;)
>
> Sent from my Android phone using TouchDown (www.nitrodesk.com<http://www.nitrodesk.com/>)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anil Madhavapeddy [anil@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:anil@xxxxxxxxxx>]
> Received: Tuesday, 19 Aug 2014, 8:37AM
> To: Russell Pavlicek [russell.pavlicek@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:russell.pavlicek@xxxxxxxxxx>]
> CC: Lars Kurth [lars.kurth@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lars.kurth@xxxxxxxxxx>]; George Dunlap [George.Dunlap@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:George.Dunlap@xxxxxxxxxx>]; sconway@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:sconway@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> [sconway@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:sconway@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]
> Subject: Re: A thought piece: Docker and Unikernels
>
> It's an aggressively toned article, but not offensively so.  I like it...
>
> A couple of minor tweaks:
>
>> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell scripts, and no massive library of utilities to take up room – or to employ in some nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the application run, and precious little for a malefactor to leverage. It's not the “end-all be-all” of security, but it is certainly facing the right direction.
>
> could have a note on type safety added:
>
> There is no multi-user operating system, no shell scripts, and no massive library of utilities to take up room – or to employ in some nefarious exploit. There is just enough code to make the application run, and precious little for a malefactor to leverage.  All the code that is present is statically type-safe, from the application stack all the way down to the device drivers themselves. It's not the “end-all be-all” of security, but it is certainly facing the right direction.
>
>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look back at the unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will be a growing forest of unikernel-type systems. Frankly, I can't wait to see what will develop in this space.
>
> Could note that unikernels and containers may well converge:
>
>> I fully expect that 5 years from now we will look back at the unikernels of 2014 and see these as the seedlings of what will be a growing forest of unikernel-type systems. They can be viewed as the natural evolution of Linux containers - maintaining their packaging and deployment benefits, but adding much more specialization into the mix to reduce resource wastage and external attack surface.
>
> -a
>
>> On 19 Aug 2014, at 07:24, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:russell.pavlicek@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> I woke up this morning with this going through my head.  It was pretty much written in one shot (which I never do), so it may take some polishing, but I think the thoughts are all there.
>>
>> I see James Bottomley on the Keynote list for Wednesday morning and I anticipate another round of the "Docker has won" message that James has become famous for.
>>
>> I'd like your feedback.  Ideally, I'd like to propose this for Linux.com<http://Linux.com> in order to temper the flawed notion of Docker as the panacea of virtualuzation, hopefully before the media swell around his prognostications dies down.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Russ Pavlicek
>> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
>> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327<tel:%2B1-301-829-5327>
>> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199<tel:%2B1-240-397-0199>
>> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894<tel:%2B44%201223%20852%20894>
>> <Docker has not won the war-the battle is just beginning.odt><Docker has not won the war-the battle is just beginning.pdf>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Publicity mailing list
> Publicity@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:Publicity@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> http://lists.xenproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/publicity
>
>

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--
Sarah Conway
PR Manager
The Linux Foundation
sconway@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(978) 578-5300  Cell
Skype:  sarah.k.conway
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