Re: [Xen-devel] [PATCH V3 1/1] expand x86 arch_shared_info to support >3 level p2m tree

[David Vrabel <david.vrabel@xxxxxxxxxx>]

On 15/09/14 11:46, Juergen Gross wrote:
> On 09/15/2014 12:30 PM, David Vrabel wrote:
>> On 15/09/14 10:52, Juergen Gross wrote:
>>> On 09/15/2014 11:44 AM, David Vrabel wrote:
>>>> On 15/09/14 09:52, Juergen Gross wrote:
>>>>> On 09/15/2014 10:29 AM, Andrew Cooper wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/09/2014 11:31, Juergen Gross wrote:
>>>>>>> On 09/09/2014 12:49 PM, Juergen Gross wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 09/09/2014 12:27 PM, Andrew Cooper wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 09/09/14 10:58, Juergen Gross wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> The x86 struct arch_shared_info field pfn_to_mfn_frame_list_list
>>>>>>>>>> currently contains the mfn of the top level page frame of the 3
>>>>>>>>>> level
>>>>>>>>>> p2m tree, which is used by the Xen tools during saving and
>>>>>>>>>> restoring
>>>>>>>>>> (and live migration) of pv domains. With three levels of the p2m
>>>>>>>>>> tree
>>>>>>>>>> it is possible to support up to 512 GB of RAM for a 64 bit pv
>>>>>>>>>> domain.
>>>>>>>>>> A 32 bit pv domain can support more, as each memory page can hold
>>>>>>>>>> 1024
>>>>>>>>>> instead of 512 entries, leading to a limit of 4 TB. To be able to
>>>>>>>>>> support more RAM on x86-64 an additional level is to be added.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This patch expands struct arch_shared_info with a new p2m tree
>>>>>>>>>> root
>>>>>>>>>> and the number of levels of the p2m tree. The new information is
>>>>>>>>>> indicated by the domain to be valid by storing ~0UL into
>>>>>>>>>> pfn_to_mfn_frame_list_list (this should be done only if more than
>>>>>>>>>> three levels are needed, of course).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A small domain feeling a little tight on space could easily opt
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> a 2
>>>>>>>>> or even 1 level p2m.  (After all, one advantage of virt is to cram
>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>> small VMs into a server).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How is xen and toolstack support for n-level p2ms going to be
>>>>>>>>> advertised
>>>>>>>>> to guests?  Simply assuming the toolstack is capable of dealing
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> this new scheme wont work with a new pv guest running on an older
>>>>>>>>> Xen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it really worth doing such an optimization? This would save only
>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>> few pages.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you think it should be done we can add another SIF_* flag to
>>>>>>>> start_info->flags. In this case a domain using this feature could
>>>>>>>> not be
>>>>>>>> migrated to a server with old tools, however. So we would probably
>>>>>>>> end
>>>>>>>> with the need to be able to suppress that flag on a per-domain
>>>>>>>> base.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any further comments?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which way should I go?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are two approaches, with different up/downsides
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) continue to use the old method, and use the new method only when
>>>>>> absolutely required.  This will function, but on old toolstacks,
>>>>>> suffer
>>>>>> migration/suspend failures when the toolstack fails to find the p2m.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) Provide a Xen feature flag indicating the presence of N-level p2m
>>>>>> support.  Guests which can see this flag are free to use N-level, and
>>>>>> guests which can't are not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ultimately, giving more than 512GB to a current 64bit PV domain is
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> going to work, and the choice above depends on which failure mode you
>>>>>> wish a new/old mix to have.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd prefer solution 1), as it will enable Dom0 with more than 512 GB
>>>>> without requiring a change of any Xen component. Additionally large
>>>>> domains can be started by users who don't care for migrating or
>>>>> suspending them.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I'd rather keep my patch as posted.
>>>>
>>>> PV guests can have extra memory added, beyond their initial limit.
>>>> Supporting this would require option 2.
>>>
>>> I don't see why this should require option 2.
>>
>> Um...
>>
>>> Option 1 only prohibits suspending/migrating a domain with more than
>>> 512 GB.
>>
>> ...this is the reason.
>>
>> With the exception of VMs that have assigned direct access to hardware,
>> migration is an essential feature and must be supported.
> 
> So you'd prefer:
> 
> 1) >512GB pv-domains (including Dom0) will be supported only with new
>    Xen (4.6?), no matter if the user requires migration to be supported

Yes.  >512 GiB and not being able to migrate are not obviously related
from the point of view of the end user (unlike assigning a PCI device).

Failing at domain save time is most likely too late for the end user.

> to:
> 
> 2) >512GB pv-domains (especially Dom0 and VMs with direct hw access) can
>    be started on current Xen versions, migration is possible only if Xen
>    is new (4.6?)

There's also my preferred option:

3) >512 GiB PV domains are not supported.  Large guests must be PVH or
PVHVM.

> What is the common use case for migration? I doubt it is used very often
> for really huge domains.

XenServer uses it for server pool upgrades with no VM downtime.

Also, today's huge VM is tomorrow's common size.

David

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