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Re: [Xen-devel] x86: PIE support and option to extend KASLR randomization
- To: Ingo Molnar <mingo@xxxxxxxxxx>
- From: Thomas Garnier <thgarnie@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:28:52 -0700
- Cc: Nicolas Pitre <nicolas.pitre@xxxxxxxxxx>, Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@xxxxxxxxx>, Michal Hocko <mhocko@xxxxxxxx>, kvm list <kvm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Radim Krčmář <rkrcmar@xxxxxxxxxx>, Peter Zijlstra <peterz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@xxxxxxx>, Christopher Li <sparse@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Alexei Starovoitov <ast@xxxxxxxxxx>, David Howells <dhowells@xxxxxxxxxx>, Paul Gortmaker <paul.gortmaker@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Pavel Machek <pavel@xxxxxx>, "H . Peter Anvin" <hpa@xxxxxxxxx>, Kernel Hardening <kernel-hardening@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Christoph Lameter <cl@xxxxxxxxx>, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Kees Cook <keescook@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, the arch/x86 maintainers <x86@xxxxxxxxxx>, Herbert Xu <herbert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Daniel Borkmann <daniel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Matthew Wilcox <mawilcox@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Peter Foley <pefoley2@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Joerg Roedel <joro@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Rafael J . Wysocki" <rafael.j.wysocki@xxxxxxxxx>, Daniel Micay <danielmicay@xxxxxxxxx>, Baoquan He <bhe@xxxxxxxxxx>, xen-devel <xen-devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Sparse Mailing-list <linux-sparse@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Matthias Kaehlcke <mka@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, linux-arch <linux-arch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Waiman Long <longman@xxxxxxxxxx>, Borislav Petkov <bp@xxxxxxx>, Markus Trippelsdorf <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Len Brown <len.brown@xxxxxxxxx>, Rik van Riel <riel@xxxxxxxxxx>, Chris Metcalf <cmetcalf@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@xxxxxxxx>, Linux PM list <linux-pm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Brian Gerst <brgerst@xxxxxxxxx>, "H . J . Lu" <hjl.tools@xxxxxxxxx>, Steven Rostedt <rostedt@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Borislav Petkov <bp@xxxxxxxxx>, Andy Lutomirski <luto@xxxxxxxxxx>, Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@xxxxxxxxxx>, Boris Ostrovsky <boris.ostrovsky@xxxxxxxxxx>, Mika Westerberg <mika.westerberg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@xxxxxxxxxx>, Juergen Gross <jgross@xxxxxxxx>, Dou Liyang <douly.fnst@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Paul Bolle <pebolle@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Paul E . McKenney" <paulmck@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Andrew Morton <akpm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Masahiro Yamada <yamada.masahiro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Linus Torvalds <torvalds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Ard Biesheuvel <ard.biesheuvel@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Rafael J . Wysocki" <rjw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, LKML <linux-kernel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Kyle Huey <me@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, Lukas Wunner <lukas@xxxxxxxxx>, Linux Crypto Mailing List <linux-crypto@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Rob Landley <rob@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Tejun Heo <tj@xxxxxxxxxx>, Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@xxxxxxxxxx>, Tom Lendacky <thomas.lendacky@xxxxxxx>, Tim Chen <tim.c.chen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "David S . Miller" <davem@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Kirill A . Shutemov" <kirill.shutemov@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Delivery-date: Mon, 02 Oct 2017 20:29:09 +0000
- List-id: Xen developer discussion <xen-devel.lists.xen.org>
On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 2:43 AM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> * Thomas Garnier <thgarnie@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> > 2) we first implement the additional entropy bits that Linus suggested.
>> >
>> > does this work for you?
>>
>> Sure, I can look at how feasible that is. If it is, can I send
>> everything as part of the same patch set? The additional entropy would
>> be enabled for all KASLR but PIE will be off-by-default of course.
>
> Sure, can all be part of the same series.
I looked deeper in the change Linus proposed (moving the .text section
based on the cacheline). I think the complexity is too high for the
value of this change.
To move only the .text section would require at least the following changes:
- Overall change on how relocations are processed, need to separate
relocations in and outside of the .text section.
- Break assumptions on _text alignment while keeping calculation on
size accurate (for example _end - _text).
With a rough attempt at this, I managed to pass early boot and still
crash later on.
This change would be valuable if you leak the address of a section
other than .text and you want to know where .text is. Meaning the main
bug that you are trying to exploit only allow you to execute code (and
you are trying to ROP in .text). I would argue that a better
mitigation for this type of bugs is moving function pointer to
read-only sections and using stack cookies (for ret address). This
change won't prevent other type of attacks, like data corruption.
I think it would be more valuable to look at something like selfrando
/ pagerando [1] but maybe wait a bit for it to be more mature
(especially on the debugging side).
What do you think?
[1] http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2017-June/113794.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ingo
--
Thomas
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