RE: [Xen-users] Debian Repository

["Ian Tobin" <itobin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Ok great

Thanks for clearing that all up, its quite confusing with all the different 
versions etc flying around at min :)

Ian



-----Original Message-----
From: Pasi Kärkkäinen [mailto:pasik@xxxxxx] 
Sent: 13 January 2010 11:47
To: Ian Tobin
Cc: xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Debian Repository

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 11:37:12AM -0000, Ian Tobin wrote:
> Right im with you.
> 
> I take it the XENpatches are better though because they are not so generic 
> and have better performance
> 

At the moment the original "Xenlinux" patches, or the various
forward-ports of them (by Novel/OpenSUSE), might be faster than pv_ops.

Also pv_ops dom0 patches are still lacking some features.. but
development is happening all the time, so that will get fixed in the
near future.

In the future pv_ops (domU and dom0) is meant to be the one and only correct 
solution.

-- Pasi

> Ian
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pasi Kärkkäinen [mailto:pasik@xxxxxx] 
> Sent: 13 January 2010 11:34
> To: Ian Tobin
> Cc: xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Debian Repository
> 
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 11:30:24AM -0000, Ian Tobin wrote:
> > Ok i think i understand all that :)
> > 
> > So if  compiled the the latest kernel enabling the xen options i can run a 
> > DomU on the pv_ops framework?
> > 
> 
> Yes, the upstream Linux kernel can be used as Xen PV domU kernel.
> 
> Distributions like Fedora 10, Fedora 11, Fedora 12 contain pv_ops based
> Xen PV domU kernels out-of-the-box.
> 
> pv_ops makes it possible to run the exact same kernel binary on both
> baremetal (without Xen) and on Xen PV domU/guest!
> 
> -- Pasi
> 
> > Ian
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pasi Kärkkäinen [mailto:pasik@xxxxxx] 
> > Sent: 13 January 2010 11:10
> > To: Ian Tobin
> > Cc: xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Debian Repository
> > 
> > On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 10:56:04AM -0000, Ian Tobin wrote:
> > > Sorry im a bit confused, why have they added DomU support but no Dom0 
> > > support?  
> > >
> > 
> > It's a long story. The 'original' Xenlinux patches (around Linux 2.6.18 
> > timeframe, 
> > including dom0 support) were submitted for inclusion in upstream Linux,
> > but the patches were considered too intrusive, ie. they modified too
> > much non-Xen generic x86 code, so the patches were not accepted into Linux.
> > 
> > That's when Xensource, VMware etc started working on a general
> > paravirtualization framework for Linux. This was called pv_ops 
> > (paravirt_ops). 
> > It took a long time to get the generic pv_ops framework in shape and merged 
> > in Linux, 
> > and then after that Xen pv_ops domU support was merged in mainline Linux.
> > 
> > See here for history/changelog: 
> > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > 
> > Today upstream/mainline Linux contains Xen domU support using the pv_ops 
> > framework.
> > 
> > > I was under the impression that pv_ops replaces Dom0 and you can run domU 
> > > on pv_ops?
> > > 
> > 
> > Jeremy (from Citrix/Xensource) is working on adding dom0 support to
> > Linux pv_ops, so that mainline Linux can function as a dom0 kernel.
> > 
> > Currently pv_ops dom0 patches are in Jeremy's git tree, and not yet
> > accepted into upstream Linux. Jeremy is working hard on this.
> > 
> > See XenParavirtOps wiki page for status updates.
> > 
> > > That saying do i need a Dom0 if using pv_ops ?
> > > 
> > 
> > Uhm.. you always need dom0 to manage and run Xen.
> > Dom0 kernel can be based on pv_ops, or the old 'xenlinux' patches.
> > 
> > Hopefully that clears it up.
> > 
> > -- Pasi
> > 
> > > Ian
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Pasi Kärkkäinen [mailto:pasik@xxxxxx] 
> > > Sent: 13 January 2010 09:59
> > > To: Ian Tobin
> > > Cc: xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Debian Repository
> > > 
> > > On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 09:30:52AM -0000, Ian Tobin wrote:
> > > > Just another quick one, if i downloaded the latest kernel from 
> > > > kernel.org and compiled it would this have support for the latest XEN 
> > > > release?
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > vanilla kernel from kernel.org has Xen domU (guest) support included,
> > > using the Linux pv_ops framework.
> > > 
> > > Dom0 support is not yet included in kernel.org kernels.
> > > 
> > > List of various dom0 capable kernels and patches here:
> > > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenDom0Kernels
> > > 
> > > -- Pasi
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Pasi Kärkkäinen [mailto:pasik@xxxxxx] 
> > > > Sent: 13 January 2010 09:23
> > > > To: Ian Tobin
> > > > Cc: xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Debian Repository
> > > > 
> > > > On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 09:07:17AM -0000, Ian Tobin wrote:
> > > > > If Debian is not going to be supported for much longer what would the 
> > > > > next best OS be?
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > If you read the posts, they're actively working on fixing the packages.
> > > > 
> > > > -- Pasi
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Pasi Kärkkäinen [mailto:pasik@xxxxxx] 
> > > > > Sent: 12 January 2010 14:20
> > > > > To: Ian Tobin
> > > > > Cc: xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Debian Repository
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 04:16:31PM +0200, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > > > > > On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 12:44:32PM -0000, Ian Tobin wrote:
> > > > > > >    Hi,
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >    Im trying to install Netware and Windows 2008 server but im 
> > > > > > > having
> > > > > > >    problems with it reading the ISO.  Im guessing this is because 
> > > > > > > im running
> > > > > > >    version 3.2.1 debian packages so i want to upgrade to unstable 
> > > > > > > and use the
> > > > > > >    3.4 deb packages.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >    My problem is that there isn't a kernel package so when 
> > > > > > > booting you cant
> > > > > > >    boot into xenified kernel mode.  If i try and use a kernel 
> > > > > > > from the stable
> > > > > > >    tree it messes things up.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >    How is everyone else running the 3.4 packages? Ive read about 
> > > > > > > pv_ops but i
> > > > > > >    don't know how to install or use it.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >    Any ideas?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I think the Debian Xen 3.4.2 debs are also missing qemu-dm required
> > > > > > for Xen HVM guests. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Debian developers are working on adding qemu-dm back to the 
> > > > > > packages 
> > > > > > (it was removed because the Debian Xen maintainer didn't want to 
> > > > > > maintain
> > > > > > it, he thought managing/patching Qemu was too much work for him).
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > There was discussion about this on xen-devel and on debian pkg-xen
> > > > > > mailinglists:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > http://lists.xensource.com/archives/html/xen-devel/2009-12/msg00716.html
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > http://blog.xen.org/index.php/2009/12/15/support-to-be-removed-from-debian-squeeze-call-for-volunteers/
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > You could always compile your own Xen dom0 kernel, there are many
> > > > > > options for that:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenDom0Kernels
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > At the moment Linux 2.6.31.9 with OpenSUSE 2.6.31-10 Xen patches might
> > > > > be a good option for you as a dom0 kernel.
> > > > > 
> > > > > -- Pasi
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 



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