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Re: [Xen-users] Announcing XenMaster

On 12 Feb 2012, at 01:03, George Shuklin wrote:

...but sorry, why do you use a richfat and plumby Java backend? There are a lot of smaller, ressource efficient, incomplex and easier to handle open source technologies - even full oo - available to build such a HTML management front- and even backend?

We agree that in comparison to xm/xl/xe, running a Java stack might seem to be a bit on the heavy side. Yet we'd like to note that our back-end is nothing like Tomcat or Glassfish, it contains only the bare minimum needed to do its work.

To elaborate choosing Java for our back-end:
- Java applications can be deployed on a wide variety of operating systems, if not all.
- Eventually the back-end will also be orchestrating pools or clusters.
- The back-end parses responses and shrinks updates down to only the bare minimum, limiting bandwidth use by the front-end.
- The back-end allows access to your servers over a single TCP/IP port, the Xen-API will not be publicly exposed.
- Again we’re not running a whole Java EE stack, the front-end is a webapp that lives on its own and communicates with the backend over a WebSocket connection.
- Coupled with Cassandra, the back-end is the only thing that needs to be run (one single instance), for any number of hosts.

I'm very against Java. After Oracle license change sun-jre package was forced to be removed from the most distros. Right now Oracle does not properly supports any dpkg (deb) based Linux distrubition, providing only RPMs and some creepy tarball. This actually means 'very bad linux support'. And if we looks how Oracle do business we can see no future for nice multiplatform support. Yes, there is open-source implementation for JRE, but it still uncomplete, and, again, resistance to publish opensource code for certification is looking ugly.

Oracle didn't make a very good first impression in FOSS land, that's true.
But there are a few things you should know about the Java situation in relation to Oracle:
- The OpenJDK project now carries the reference implementation for Java, adapted by Oracle for use in their own products. So one can safely assume it's quite complete and well-tested.
- Sure the community maintained builds might not be Oracle supported, but I'd argue that isn't much of a necessity anyway; even for production. The open source builds run just fine (I'm talking about my experience here).
- The TCK license allows running the JCK for the OpenJDK code.

So using a 'half-opened' open-source solution, where specification is controlled by not-very-opensource-friendly company for new open-source product is really bad idea.

The specification is controlled by the Executive Committee (http://jcp.org/en/participation/committee). Sure, Oracle might be a major influence, but saying they integrally control the specification is wrong. And, by all means, cut Oracle some slack, their attitude towards open-source was and still is improving.

HTML5 is much more open standard, so using html5 is more proper solution.

... OK, let's forget Linux. Looks at windows. IE will supports HTML5 out of box. And future is looking promising. And how about Java? Yes, you need to download it, install is separately, it starts to nagging about updates, and it does not supports for windows system updates, so you need to update it manually. Again, comparation Java VS HTML5 is not toward Java.

It's not one versus the other, it's HTML5 working together with a Java backend (rather lovely, I might add).
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