Re: [Xen-users] gaming on multiple OS of the same machine?

[Andrew Bobulsky <rulerof@xxxxxxxxx>]

Sorry buy another question if you could comment, Casey:

Is this normal when using GPLPV? (screenshot attached)

I'd love to actually get this running solidly, and help to write that
guide of yours ;)

Cheers,
Andrew Bobulsky


On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Andrew Bobulsky <rulerof@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Welp, even with the FLR reset, both by restarting the system and safe
> removal... still get the atikmpag.sys bsod :(
>
> Gonna try removing the drivers, removing GPLPV, and doing it in reverse.
>
> Let's see what we get! :)
>
> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Casey DeLorme <cdelorme@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> More specifically the "first time you initialize the GPU".  It's not any of
>> the operating systems, it is the card itself not getting reset.  It appears
>> to only be a Windows problem, because nobody has reported this issue when
>> running say Ubuntu with a passed GPU.
>>
>> So if you have a bunch of HVM's, your Windows can be given ID 100 and still
>> work, provided it is the first time you have used the GPU (hence first boot
>> of Windows).
>>
>> I am glad I could help, and if you have some extra storage space I recommend
>> using "dd" and a second LV partition to copy a working backup of Windows
>> post-install before experimenting.  It can save you some time/effort.
>>
>> ~Casey
>>
>> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 2:28 PM, Andrew Bobulsky <rulerof@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> Casey,
>>>
>>> Wow:
>>>
>>> > B)  When you install your ATI drivers, you need to do so on first boot
>>> > so
>>> > the card is fresh.  If you reboot Windows and not the whole machine
>>> > before
>>> > trying to install the ATI drivers, the card hasn't been "reset" and
>>> > either
>>> > the installation will BSOD or if you are successful the drivers are
>>> > almost
>>> > certainly bugged and you will have problems in the future.  My solution,
>>> > reboot Xen before installing ATI drivers.  OR!  Use the USB Safe Device
>>> > removal and then install them.
>>> >
>>> > To fix your BSOD you may have to safe mode reboot, uninstall the ATI
>>> > drivers, reboot the entire computer (Xen), and then try again.
>>>
>>> My first instinct on reading that was to literally facepalm myself.
>>> Thank heavens I wear glasses.  :D
>>>
>>> So Basically (or perhaps, "in essence") the drivers need to be
>>> installed when the ID of the DomU is 1.  Fresh boot of Xen, first
>>> post-Xen boot of the DomU with the device attached.  Gonna try that
>>> now :)
>>>
>>> I DO recall the FLR thing you mentioned.  Haven't run into that yet
>>> because I haven't run into a successful install of the drivers :D
>>>
>>> Thank you so much.  I most certainly would have screwed it up again I
>>> think!  I'm on round 3 of Windows installation.  GPLPV is installed,
>>> so let's see how this goes...
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andrew Bobulsky
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Casey DeLorme <cdelorme@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> > Andrew,
>>> >
>>> > I hate that error with a passion, but the good news is I may have
>>> > figured
>>> > out exactly what causes it thanks to hundreds of encounters and some
>>> > insight
>>> > from Tobias Geiger's posts on VGA Performance Degradation.
>>> >
>>> > First, it isn't the GPLPV drivers, it's your ATI card/drivers.
>>> >
>>> > You may have noticed that the first boot of your system your ATI card
>>> > performs optimally in Windows, well when you reboot windows and not the
>>> > whole Xen system, the GPU does not get reset.
>>> >
>>> > It has been speculated that this is an FLR bug or perhaps more
>>> > specifically
>>> > a Windows FLR bug.
>>> >
>>> > The solution, at boot time go to the USB Safe Ejection option, and eject
>>> > the
>>> > card.  Your screen goes black for 1-3 seconds and it automatically
>>> > reinstalls.  This is essentially a forced FLR, and will fix the
>>> > performance
>>> > issues... at least until you reboot windows again.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > My Solution(s) to Atikmpag.sys errors:
>>> >
>>> > I encountered this bug in two very specific instances.
>>> >
>>> > A)  If I was using a buggy device, in my case my BlueTooth adapter was
>>> > dying
>>> > and I didn't realize it until over a week of failed testing.  The buggy
>>> > BlueTooth device was causing ATI's drivers to freak, how they are
>>> > related is
>>> > beyond me.  In conclusion, try unplugging any extra devices when
>>> > testing.
>>> >
>>> > B)  When you install your ATI drivers, you need to do so on first boot
>>> > so
>>> > the card is fresh.  If you reboot Windows and not the whole machine
>>> > before
>>> > trying to install the ATI drivers, the card hasn't been "reset" and
>>> > either
>>> > the installation will BSOD or if you are successful the drivers are
>>> > almost
>>> > certainly bugged and you will have problems in the future.  My solution,
>>> > reboot Xen before installing ATI drivers.  OR!  Use the USB Safe Device
>>> > removal and then install them.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > To fix your BSOD you may have to safe mode reboot, uninstall the ATI
>>> > drivers, reboot the entire computer (Xen), and then try again.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Also, if you install the Windows Update ATI drivers, you're essentially
>>> > screwed since it will automatically reinstall them every boot, which
>>> > means
>>> > before you can eject the device to force FLR.  The only workaround I
>>> > have
>>> > found for this is to reinstall Windows.  If anyone knows how to tell
>>> > Windows
>>> > to "really" delete an installed driver that would be fabulous, but just
>>> > the
>>> > checkbox on device uninstall doesn't do it when you install the Windows
>>> > Update driver.
>>> >
>>> > Hope that helps with a few things, let me know if I wasn't clear (It's a
>>> > confusing topic to begin with).
>>> >
>>> > ~Casey
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 2:10 PM, chris <tknchris@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> kpartx being one of them! awesome tool for lvm backed domU's
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Casey DeLorme <cdelorme@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Hi Andrew,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> You mean the Windows DomU configuration, right?  I put it up on
>>> >>> pastebin
>>> >>> here along with a couple other configuration files:
>>> >>> http://pastebin.com/9E1g1BHf
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I'm just using normal LV partitions and passing them to an HVM, there
>>> >>> is
>>> >>> no special trick so any LVM guide should put you on the right track.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I named my SSD VG "xen" so my drives are all found at /dev/xen/lvname.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> **********
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The only convoluted part is my Dom0 installation, since I used EFI
>>> >>> boot
>>> >>> and an LV to store root (/), so I have two 256MB partitions, one FAT32
>>> >>> for
>>> >>> EFI, one Ext4 for boot (/boot) and then the rest of the disk to LVM.
>>> >>>  I did
>>> >>> the LVM setup right in the installation, added the SSD partition (PV)
>>> >>> to a
>>> >>> Volume Group (VG) then threw on a few partitions.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I created a linux root partition of 8GB, a home partition of 20GB, and
>>> >>> a
>>> >>> swap partition of 2GB.  I mapped those in the configuration, then I
>>> >>> went on
>>> >>> ahead and made a 140GB partition for windows, and two 4GB partitions
>>> >>> for
>>> >>> PFSense and NGinx.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Once the system is installed, the standard LVM tools can be used,
>>> >>> lvcreate, lvresize, lvremove, lv/vg/pvdisplay commands, etc...
>>> >>>
>>> >>> My Disk IO is not optimal, which might be because I run four systems
>>> >>> off
>>> >>> the same drive at the same time, so if you intend to use many systems
>>> >>> you
>>> >>> may want to split the drives onto multiple physical disks.  However, I
>>> >>> have
>>> >>> reason to believe my IO problems are a Xen bug, I just haven't had
>>> >>> time to
>>> >>> test/prove it.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> **********
>>> >>>
>>> >>> When you pass a LV to an HVM it treats it like a physical disk, and it
>>> >>> will create a partition table, MBR code, and partitions inside the LV
>>> >>> (partitions within partitions).
>>> >>>
>>> >>> When I get some free time I want to write up a pretty verbose guide on
>>> >>> LVM specifically for Xen, there are plenty of things I've learned
>>> >>> about
>>> >>> accessing the partitions too.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Some things I learned recently with Xen, IDE drives (hdX) only allow
>>> >>> four
>>> >>> passed devices, so if you have more than 3 storage partitions you will
>>> >>> want
>>> >>> to use SCSI (sdX) for them, but SCSI drives are not bootable.  Hence
>>> >>> my
>>> >>> configuration has "hda" for the boot drive (lv partition), and sdX for
>>> >>> all
>>> >>> storage drives (lv partitons) (X = alphabetical increment, a, b, c, d,
>>> >>> etc).
>>> >>>
>>> >>> **********
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Hope that helps a bit, let me know if you have any other questions or
>>> >>> if
>>> >>> that didn't answer them correct.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ~Casey
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Andrew Bobulsky <rulerof@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Hello Casey,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Quick question!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> What's the config file entry for the LVM-type setup you have going on
>>> >>>> for the guest disk look like?  Might you be able to point me to a
>>> >>>> guide that'll show me how to set up a disk like that?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Thanks!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> -Andrew Bobulsky
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Casey DeLorme <cdelorme@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >>>> wrote:
>>> >>>> > Hello Peter,
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Question #1: Performance
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > With x86 Virtualization hardware such as CPU's and Memory are
>>> >>>> > mapped
>>> >>>> > not
>>> >>>> > layered, there should be almost no difference in speeds from
>>> >>>> > running
>>> >>>> > natively.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > I am running Windows 7 HVM with an ATI Radeon 6870.  My system has
>>> >>>> > 12GB of
>>> >>>> > RAM, and a Core i7 2600.  I gave Windows 4 vcores and 6GB of
>>> >>>> > memory,
>>> >>>> > Windows
>>> >>>> > Experience index gives me 7.5 for CPU and 7.6 for RAM.  With VGA
>>> >>>> > Passthrough
>>> >>>> > I have 7.8 for both graphics scores.  I am running all my systems
>>> >>>> > on
>>> >>>> > LVM
>>> >>>> > partitions on an OCZ Vertex 3 Drive, without PV Drivers windows
>>> >>>> > scored
>>> >>>> > 6.2
>>> >>>> > for HDD speeds, with PV drivers it jumped to 7.8.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Scores aside, performance with CPU/RAM is excellent, I am hoping to
>>> >>>> > create a
>>> >>>> > demo video of my system when I get some time (busy with college).
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > My biggest concern right now is Disk IO ranges from excellent to
>>> >>>> > abysmal,
>>> >>>> > but I have a feeling the displayed values and actual speeds might
>>> >>>> > be
>>> >>>> > different.  I'll put putting together an extensive test with this
>>> >>>> > later, but
>>> >>>> > let's just say IO speeds vary (even with PV drivers).  The Disk IO
>>> >>>> > does not
>>> >>>> > appear to have any affect on games from my experience, so it may
>>> >>>> > only
>>> >>>> > be
>>> >>>> > write speeds.  I have not run any disk benchmarks.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Question #2: GPU Assignment
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > I have no idea how Dual GPU cards work, so I can't really answer
>>> >>>> > this
>>> >>>> > question.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > I can advise you to be on the lookout for motherboards with NF200
>>> >>>> > chipsets
>>> >>>> > or strange PCI Switches, I bought an ASRock Extreme7 Gen3, great
>>> >>>> > bought but
>>> >>>> > NF200 is completely incompatible with VT-d, ended up with only one
>>> >>>> > PCIe slot
>>> >>>> > to pass.  I can recommend the ASRock Extreme4 Gen3, got it right
>>> >>>> > now,
>>> >>>> > if I
>>> >>>> > had enough money to buy a bigger PSU and a second GPU I would be
>>> >>>> > doing
>>> >>>> > what
>>> >>>> > you are planning to.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Question #3:  Configuration
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Two approaches to device connection, USB Passthrough and PCI
>>> >>>> > Passthrough.  I
>>> >>>> > haven't tried USB Passthrough, but I have a feeling it wouldn't
>>> >>>> > work
>>> >>>> > with
>>> >>>> > complex devices that require OS drives, such as BlueTooth receivers
>>> >>>> > or
>>> >>>> > an
>>> >>>> > XBox 360 Wireless adapter.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > I took the second approach of passing the USB Controller, but this
>>> >>>> > will vary
>>> >>>> > by hardware.  The ASRock Extreme4 Gen3 has four USB PCI
>>> >>>> > Controllers, I
>>> >>>> > don't
>>> >>>> > have any idea how you would check this stuff from their manuals, I
>>> >>>> > found out
>>> >>>> > when I ran "lspci" from Linux Dom0.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > I had no luck with USB 3.0, many devices weren't functional when
>>> >>>> > connected
>>> >>>> > to it, so I left my four USB 3.0 ports to my Dom0, and passed all
>>> >>>> > my
>>> >>>> > USB 2.0
>>> >>>> > ports.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Again hardware specific, one of the bus had 4 ports, the other had
>>> >>>> > only two,
>>> >>>> > I bought a 4 port USB PCI plate and attached the additional USB
>>> >>>> > pins
>>> >>>> > from
>>> >>>> > the board to turn the 2-port into a 6-port controller.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > I use a ton of USB devices on my Windows system, Disk IO blows, but
>>> >>>> > everything else functions great.  With PCI Passed USB I am able to
>>> >>>> > use
>>> >>>> > an
>>> >>>> > XBox 360 Wireless Adapter, 2 Wireless USB Keyboards in different
>>> >>>> > areas
>>> >>>> > of
>>> >>>> > the room, a Hauppauge HD PVR, A logitech C910 HD Webcam, and a
>>> >>>> > Logitech
>>> >>>> > Wireless Mouse.  I had BlueTooth but I got rid of it, the device
>>> >>>> > itself went
>>> >>>> > bad and was causing my system to BlueScreen.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > When I tested USB 3.0, I got no video from my Happauge HD PVR or my
>>> >>>> > Logitech
>>> >>>> > C910 webcam, and various devices when connected failed to function
>>> >>>> > right.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Question #4:  Other?
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > I am 100% certain you could get a system running 2 Windows 7 HVM's
>>> >>>> > up
>>> >>>> > for
>>> >>>> > gaming, but you may need to daisy chain some USB devices if you
>>> >>>> > want
>>> >>>> > more
>>> >>>> > than just a keyboard and mouse for each.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Also, if you are not confident in your ability to work with *nix, I
>>> >>>> > wouldn't
>>> >>>> > advise it.  I had spent two years tinkering with Web Servers in
>>> >>>> > Debian, so I
>>> >>>> > thought I would have an easy time of things.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > I tried it on a week off, ended up taking me 2 months to complete
>>> >>>> > my
>>> >>>> > setup.
>>> >>>> >  The results are spectacular, but be prepared to spend many hours
>>> >>>> > debugging
>>> >>>> > unless you find a really good guide.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > I would recommend going for a Two Windows on One Rig, and duplicate
>>> >>>> > that rig
>>> >>>> > for a second machine, and I recommend that for two reasons.  If you
>>> >>>> > are
>>> >>>> > successful with the first machine, you can easily copy the process.
>>> >>>> >  This
>>> >>>> > will save you hours of attempting to get a whole four Gaming
>>> >>>> > machines
>>> >>>> > working on one system.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > As stated, I only run one gaming machine, but I do have two other
>>> >>>> > HVM's
>>> >>>> > running, one manages my households network and the other is a
>>> >>>> > private
>>> >>>> > web/file server.  So, performance wise Xen can do a lot.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Best of luck,
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > ~Casey
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 6:17 PM, Peter Vandendriessche
>>> >>>> > <peter.vandendriessche@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> Hi,
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> I am new to Xen and I was wondering if the following construction
>>> >>>> >> would be
>>> >>>> >> feasible with the current Xen.
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> I would like to put 2/3/4 new computers in my house, mainly for
>>> >>>> >> gaming.
>>> >>>> >> Instead of buying 2/3/4 different computers, I was thinking of
>>> >>>> >> building one
>>> >>>> >> computer with a 4/6/8-core CPU, 2/3/4 GPUs, 2/3/4 small SSDs, and
>>> >>>> >> attach
>>> >>>> >> 2/3/4 monitors to it, 2/3/4 keyboards and 2/3/4 mouses, and run
>>> >>>> >> VGA
>>> >>>> >> passthrough. This would save me money on hardware, and it would
>>> >>>> >> also
>>> >>>> >> save
>>> >>>> >> quite some space on the desk where I wanted to put them.
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> If this is possible, I have a few additional questions about this:
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> 1) Would the speed on each virtual machine be effectively that of
>>> >>>> >> a
>>> >>>> >> 2-core
>>> >>>> >> CPU with 1 GPU? What about memory speed/latency?
>>> >>>> >> 2) Is it possible to split dual GPUs, e.g. drive 4 OSes with 2x
>>> >>>> >> Radeon HD
>>> >>>> >> 6990 (=4 GPUs in 2 PCI-e slots)?
>>> >>>> >> 3) How should one configure the machine such that each OS receives
>>> >>>> >> only
>>> >>>> >> the input from its own keyboard/mouse?
>>> >>>> >> 4) Any other problems or concerns that you can think of?
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> Thanks in advance,
>>> >>>> >> Peter
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> >> Xen-users mailing list
>>> >>>> >> Xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >>>> >> http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> > Xen-users mailing list
>>> >>>> > Xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >>>> > http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>>> >>> Xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >>> http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>
>>

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