Re: [Xen-devel] [RFC PATCH v2 3/3] tools, libxl: handle the iomem parameter with the memory_mapping hcall

[Arianna Avanzini <avanzini.arianna@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 03/14/2014 01:15 PM, Dario Faggioli wrote:
> On ven, 2014-03-14 at 09:46 +0000, Ian Campbell wrote:
>> On Thu, 2014-03-13 at 19:37 +0100, Dario Faggioli wrote:
> 
>>> Exactly, that may very well be the case. It may not, in Arianna's case,
>>
>> Does Arianna's OS support device tree then? I had thought not. 
>>
> It does not. The "it's not the case" was referred to the hardcoded
> addresses of the IO registers, as she's for now using the 1:1 mapping.
> But as I said, that can change, and that's why I was arguing in favor of
> your solution of being able to specify a PFN too.
> 
>> If it
>> doesn't support device tree then it is necessarily tied to a specific
>> version of Xen, since in the absence of DT it must hardcode some
>> addresses.
>>
> That's fine, at least for now, for that OS, as well as, I'm quite sure,
> for many embedded OSes, should they want to run on Xen.
> 
>>> but it well can be true for others, or even for her, in future.
>>>
>>> Therefore, I keep failing to see why to prevent this to be the case.
>>
>> Prevent what to be the case?
>>
> Julien was saying he does not want the extended "iomem=[MFN,NR@PFN]"
> syntax. In particular, he does not want the "@PFN" part, which I happen
> to like. :-)
> 
>>> In Arianna's case, it think it would be more than fine to implement it
>>> that way, and call it from within the OS, isn't this the case, Arianna?
>>
>> It's certainly an option, and it would make a lot of the toolstack side
>> issues moot but I'm not at all sure it is the right answer. In
>> particular although it might be easy to bodge a mapping into many OSes I
>> can imagine getting such a think into something generic like Linux might
>> be more tricky -- in which case perhaps the toolstack should be taking
>> care of it, and that does have a certain appeal from the simplicity of
>> the guest interface side of things.
>>
> If the toolstack needs to support iomem, yes.
> 
> A way to see it could be that, as of now, we have embedded OSes asking
> for it already, and, at the same time, it's unlikely that more generic
> system such as Linux would want something similar, for one because
> they'll have full DT/ACPI support for this.
> 
> The fact that, if what you say below is true, "iomem" does not work at
> all, and no one complained from the Linux world so far, seems to me to 
> 
>>> One thing I don't see right now is, in the in-kernel case, what we
>>> should do when finding the "iomem=[]" option in a config file.
>>
>> Even for an x86 HVM guest with iomem there is no call to
>> xc_domain_memory_mapping (even from qemu) it is called only for PCI
>> passthrough. I've no idea if/how iomem=[] works for x86 HVM guests.
>> Based on a cursory glance it looks to me like it wouldn't and if it did
>> work it would have the same problems wrt where to map it as we have
>> today with the ARM guests, except perhaps on a PC the sorts of things
>> you would pass through with this can be done 1:1 because they are legacy
>> PC peripherals etc.
>>
> Aha, interesting! As said to Julien, I tried to look for how these iomem
> regions get to the xc_domain_memory_map in QEMU and I also found nothing
> (except for PCI passthrough stuff)... I was assuming I was missing
> something... apparently, I wasn't. :-)
> 
> I can try (even just out of curiosity!) to dig in the tree and see what
> happened with this feature...
> 
> BTW, doesn't this make this discussion even more relevant? I mean, if
> it's there but it's not working, shouldn't we make it work (for some
> definition of "work"), if we decide it's useful, or kill it, if not?
> 
>> I think we just don't know what the right answer is yet and I'm unlikely
>> to be able to say directly what the right answer is. I'm hoping that
>> people who want to use this low level functionality can provide a
>> consistent story for how it should work (a "design" if you like) to
>> which I can say "yes, that seems sensible" or "hmm, that seems odd
>> because of X". At the moment X is "the 1:1 mapping seems undesirable to
>> me". There have been some suggestions for how to fix that, someone with
>> a horse in the race should have a think about it and provide an
>> iteration on the design until we are happy with it.
>>
> Again, I'll look more into the history of this feature.
> 
> In the meantime, the man page entry says:
> 
> "Allow guest to access specific hardware I/O memory pages.
> B<IOMEM_START> is a physical page number. B<NUM_PAGES> is the number of
> pages beginning with B<START_PAGE> to allow access. Both values must be
> given in hexadecimal.
> 
> It is recommended to use this option only for trusted VMs under
> administrator control."
> 
> For one, the "Allow guest to access" there leaves a lot of room for
> interpretation, I think. It doesn't say anything about mapping, so one
> can interpret it as 'this only grant you mapping permission, up to you
> to map'. However, it says "access", so one can interpret it as 'if I can
> access it, it's mapped already'.
> 
> Wherever this discussion will land, I think that, if we keep this
> option, we should make the documentation less ambiguous.
> 
> That being said, allow me to play, in the rest of this e-mail, the role
> of one which expects the mapping to be actually instated by just
> specifying "iomem=[]" in the config file, which is (correct me guys if
> I'm wrong) what Eric, Viktor and Arianna thought when reading the entry
> above.
> 
> So:
>  1. it says nothing about where the mapping ends up in guest's memory,
>  2. it looks quite clear (to me?) that this is a raw/low level feature,
>     to be used under controlled conditions (which an embedded product
>     often is)
> 
> To me, a legitimate use case is this: I want to run version X of my non
> DT capable OS on version Z of Xen, on release K of board B. In such
> configuration, the GPIO controller is at MFN 0x000abcd, and I want only
> VM V to have direct access to it (board B dos not have an IOMMU).
> 
> I would also assume that one is in full control of the guest address
> space, so it is be ok to hardcode the addresses of registers somewhere.
> Of course, that may be an issue, when putting Xen underneath, as Xen's
> mangling with the such address space can cause troubles.
> 
> Arianna, can you confirm that this is pretty much the case of Erika, or
> amend what I did get wrong?
> 

I confirm that this is the case of ERIKA Enterprise, whose domU port is intended
to have exclusive access to some peripherals' I/O memory ranges. I also confirm
that, as you wrote, ERIKA doesn't currently support DT parsing and only relies
on hardcoded I/O memory addresses.

> I certainly don't claim to have the right answer but, in the described
> scenario, either:
>  1) the combination of iomem=[ MFN,NR@PFN ]", defaulting to 1:1 if  
>     "@PFN is missing, and e820_host
>  2) calling (the equivalent of) XEN_DOMCTL_memory_map from the guest 
>     kernel
> 
> would be good solutions, to the point that I think we could even support
> both. The main point being that, I think, even in the worst case, any
> erroneous usage of either, would "just" destroy the guest, and that's
> acceptable.
> 
> Actually, if going for 1), I think (when both the pieces are there)
> things should be pretty safe. Furthermore, implementing 1) seems to me
> the only way of having the "iomem=[]" parameter causing both permissions
> granting and mapping. Downside is (libxl side of) the implementation
> indeed looks cumbersome.
> 
> If going for _only_ 2), then "iomem=[]" would just be there to ensure
> the future mapping operation to be successful, i.e., for granting
> mapping rights, as it's doing right now. It would be up to the guest
> kernel to make sure the MFN it is trying to map are consistent with what
> was specified in "iomem=[]". Given the use case we're talking about, I
> don't think this is an unreasonable request, as far as we make the iomem
> man entry more clearly stating this.
> 
> Again, Arianna, do you confirm both solution are possible for you?
> 

Yes, I believe both solutions are applicable as far as it concerns my use case.

> I certainly agree that the thread could benefit from some opinion from
> people actually wanting to use this. In addition to Arianna, I have
> pinged Eirc and Viktor repeatedly... let's see if they have time to let
> us all know something more about their own needs and requirements wrt
> this.
> 
>>> Also, just trying to recap, for Arianna's sake, moving the
>>> implementation of the DOMCTL in common code (and implementing the
>>> missing bits to make it works properly, of course) is still something we
>>> want, right?
>>
>> *If* we go the route of having the kernel make the mapping then there is
>> no need, is there?
>>
> Yeah, well, me not being sure is the reason I asked... And Julien said
> he thinks we still want it... :-P
> 
> As I was saying above, I think there is room for both, but I don't mind
> picking up one. However, if we want to fix iomem=[] and go as far as
> having it doing the mapping, then I think we all agree we need the
> DOMCTL.
> 
> So, looks like the discussion resolves to something like:
>  - do we need the DOMCTL for other purposes than iomem=[] ?
>  - if no, what do we want to do with iomem=[] ?
> 
> Sorry to have brought you all deep down into this can of worms! :-/
> 
> Regards,
> Dario
> 


-- 
/*
 * Arianna Avanzini
 * avanzini.arianna@xxxxxxxxx
 * 73628@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 */

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