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Re: [Xen-devel] [Notes for xen summit 2018 design session] Process changes: is the 6 monthly release Cadence too short, Security Process, ...

On Fri, Jul 06, 2018 at 02:32:16AM -0600, Jan Beulich wrote:
> >>> On 05.07.18 at 20:13, <cardoe@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 05, 2018 at 12:16:09PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> >> Juergen Gross writes ("Re: [Xen-devel] [Notes for xen summit 2018 design 
> > session] Process changes: is the 6 monthly release Cadence too short, 
> > Security Process, ..."):
> >> > We didn't look at the sporadic failing tests thoroughly enough. The
> >> > hypercall buffer failure has been there for ages, a newer kernel just
> >> > made it more probable. This would have saved us some weeks.
> >> 
> >> In general, as a community, we are very bad at this kind of thing.
> >> 
> >> In my experience, the development community is not really interested
> >> in fixing bugs which aren't directly in their way.
> >> 
> >> You can observe this easily in the way that regression in Linux,
> >> spotted by osstest, are handled.  Linux 4.9 has been broken for 43
> >> days.  Linux mainline is broken too.
> >> 
> >> We do not have a team of people reading these test reports, and
> >> chasing developers to fix them.  I certainly do not have time to do
> >> this triage.  On trees where osstest failures do not block
> >> development, things go unfixed for weeks, sometimes months.
> > 
> > Honestly this is where we need some kind of metrics with output that my
> > 5-year old could decipher. The OSSTEST emails are large and overwhelming
> > and require a bit of time commitment to digest the volume and amount of
> > data.
> I don't understand this: All that's really relevant in those mails for
> an initial check is the top most section "Tests which did not succeed
> and are blocking". Everything further from that requires looking into
> one or more of the logs and auxiliary files linked to at the very top
> of those mails.

My point is more about human nature. When people feel overwhelmed then
tend to shy away. The amount of emails that people need to check on is
fairly high. So reducing it down into some easy summary would help get
more eyes on things. This is the reason we have cover letters for a
series of commits. Folks would be overwhelmed if they had to explore
each one to see what the goal of the series was.

Also one test flight email doesn't provide information on trends.

> > Jenkins uses weather icons to attempt to convey if this test is
> > trending worse or better or successful or broken. If it fails but not
> > every time and the amount of failures is increasing over time then its
> > got storm clouds. If the amount of failures is decreasing there's a
> > little bit of sun peaking out.
> > 
> > Just some kind of dashboard which would tell me what would provide the
> > most value to drill into would likely go a long way. But again, this is
> > just an assumption and could be a time waste.
> I think every test failure warrants looking into. It is just the case that
> after having seen a certain "uninteresting" case a number of times, I
> for instance make further implications from that on later flight reports.
> Maybe I shouldn't, but I also can't afford spending endless hours on
> looking all the details of all the flights.
> Jan

You effectively supported my point in the end. People value their time.
Giving them details about trends could help folks to look at test
failures that have "interesting" failures.


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