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Re: [Xen-users] Announcing XenMaster

Hi all,

As you might have expected the "I HATE JAVA/ORACLE/..." (I'm exaggerating) part wasn't that helpful for us. 
On the other hand we now know what people mean when they react this way, and we can at least try to anticipate this for future events.

We thank everyone who voiced his concerns or defended our choices. However, we'd like to kindly ask you to let this argument slide, it's gone a bit off-topic and we would love to actually get some feedback on our functionality rather than on the platform we use.

If you do want to take this argument further, you can find our contact details at http://wiki.xen-master.org/wiki/Contact.
And don't forget: the Xen hackathlon ( http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Hackathon/March2012 ) this year is hosted by … Oracle ;)

Thank you,

PS We're planning to have our own mailing list up and running this weekend to offload this thread from the xen-users/xen-api lists.

On 14 Feb 2012, at 18:20, Ciprian Pantea wrote:

But still being part of this community enables one and gives him the right to say his mind
especially if he considers that he might contribute.

Now maybe some of the people here may not have been as diplomat as possible, but
they gave some feedback and they represent part of the community that wants to
use this software, has a problem with java and took the time to say what they have
on their minds...

I too shall use the software even if it's based on java but I don't have to like it and if I can 
talk with the developers, why not speak my mind and say what I think about java?

Hope my reasoning is clear. Cheers!


On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 18:57, Nick Couchman <Nick.Couchman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thank you, Jeff.  You are one of a very few voices of reason in this

Folks, if you don't like Java-based software, or have some view of why
no one should be using Java because of what "big bad Oracle" is doing
with the licensing of it, don't use the software.  It's that simple.
All these folks are doing is letting those of us who are interested know
of a project for managing Xen-based systems.  I also welcome such a
project, regardless of the programming language in which it is written,
especially since there seems to be a distinct lack of good, stable,
complete, and easy-to-use management software out there for XCP (and
XenServer).  Some of us would welcome a Java-based project that would
keep us from having to run a Windows system simply to manage our XCP and
XenServer instances.

You need not attack the writers of the XenMaster code for their choices
- it only serves to discourage them from being part of this community
and from continuing their efforts to make software available to this


On Mon, 2012-02-13 at 21:40 +0000, Jeff Sturm wrote:
> I'm reluctant to further a thread that's already off-topic, but two of these sub-topics cause me considerable heartburn...
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xen-users-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:xen-users-
> > bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Linus van Geuns
> > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:44 AM
> >
> > > To conclude: Java works (for us). One can only hope its reputation gets better in the
> > years to come.
> >
> > Actually, besides being somewhat sluggish and fat ..and pretty verbose in its language
> > part, Java had a pretty good reputation.
> "reputation" is the operative word in your post.  Ii may or may not be supported by facts.  Words like sluggish/fat/verbose are merely opinions without supporting arguments (and I don't want to argue them here).
> The choice of development language is the wrong debate anyway.  There are plenty of examples of high-quality code written in Java, and you'll generally find these are simple to install, easy to run, and perform well.  I've also been forced to use Java code that produces frequent OOM errors, NPE exceptions, deadlocks, etc.  But I doubt it's difficult to find good and bad examples of just about any development language.
> It may be that the average experience level of Java programmers is shorter than for other languages, as someone else suggested.  That may be important to understanding Java's reputation, but it's not important to the XenMaster project.  I personally welcome the opportunity to work with another well engineered, carefully designed OSS project regardless of choice of development language.
> BTW, please don't remind me what Oracle is or isn't doing with Java.  I've heard it before.  Leave that discussion to the tabloids, not a technical user forum.
> > @XenMaster: I would have expected any current Xen management front-
> > end/framework to make use of and help advaince the libvirt project.
> Depends on the project's goals.  My understanding of libvirt is that it is meant to be an abstraction layer to support Xen, KVM and other hypervisors.  That's not important if the project's sole focus is Xen/XCP.  Libvirt won't add anything in that case, and it may in fact get in the way.  (My own, brief experiments with libvirt involved installing packages, following the documentation, troubleshooting libvirt and ultimately ignoring it.  Then everything began to work.  It was clear the Xen packages I was using at the time were more mature and/or fully tested than libvirt.  YMMV.)
> -Jeff

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