Re: [Xen-devel] schedulers and topology exposing questions

[George Dunlap <george.dunlap@xxxxxxxxxx>]

On 27/01/16 15:27, Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 03:10:01PM +0000, George Dunlap wrote:
>> On 27/01/16 14:33, Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk wrote:
>>> On Xen - the schedule() would go HLT.. and then later be woken up by the
>>> VIRQ_TIMER. And since the two applications were on seperate CPUs - the
>>> single packet would just stick in the queue until the VIRQ_TIMER arrived.
>>
>> I'm not sure I understand the situation right, but it sounds a bit like
>> what you're seeing is just a quirk of the fact that Linux doesn't always
>> send IPIs to wake other processes up (either by design or by accident),
> 
> It does and it does not :-)
> 
>> but relies on scheduling timers to check for work to do.  Presumably
> 
> It .. I am not explaining it well. The Linux kernel scheduler when
> called for 'schedule' (from the UDP sendmsg) would either pick the next
> appliction and do a context swap - of if there were none - go to sleep.
> [Kind of - it also may do an IPI to the other CPU if requested ,but that 
> requires
> some hints from underlaying layers]
> Since there were only two apps on the runqueue - udp sender and udp receiver
> it would run them back-to back (this is on baremetal)

I think I understand at a high level from your description what's
happening (No IPIs -> happens to run if on the same cpu, waits until
next timer tick if on a different cpu); but what I don't quite get is
*why* Linux doesn't send an IPI.

It's been quite a while since I looked at the Linux scheduling code, so
I'm trying to understand it based a lot on the Xen code. In Xen a vcpu
can be "runnable" (has something to do) and "blocked" (waiting for
something to do). Whenever a vcpu goes from "blocked" to "runnable", the
scheduler will call vcpu_wake(), which sends an IPI to the appropriate
pcpu to get it to run the vcpu.

What you're describing is a situation where a process is blocked (either
in 'listen' or 'read'), and another process does something which should
cause it to become 'runnable' (sends it a UDP message). If anyone
happens to run the scheduler on its cpu, it will run; but no proactive
actions are taken to wake it up (i.e., sending an IPI).

The idea of not sending an IPI when a process goes from "waiting for
something to do" to "has something to do" seems strange to me; and if it
wasn't a mistake, then my only guess why they would choose to do that
would be to reduce IPI traffic on large systems.

But whether it's a mistake or on purpose, it's a Linux thing, so...

>> they knew that low performance on ping-pong workloads might be a
>> possibility when they wrote the code that way; I don't see a reason why
>> we should try to work around that in Xen.
> 
> Which is not what I am suggesting.

I'm glad we agree on this. :-)

> Our first ideas was that since this is a Linux kernel schduler characteristic
> - let us give the guest all the information it needs to do this. That is
> make it look as baremetal as possible - and that is where the vCPU
> pinning and the exposing of SMT information came about. That (Elena
> pls correct me if I am wrong) did indeed show that the guest was doing
> what we expected.
> 
> But naturally that requires pinning and all that - and while it is a useful
> case for those that have the vCPUs to spare and can do it - that is not
> a general use-case.
> 
> So Elena started looking at the CPU bound and seeing how Xen behaves then
> and if we can improve the floating situation as she saw some abnormal
> behavious.

OK -- if the focus was on the two cases where the Xen credit1 scheduler
(apparently) co-located two cpu-burning vcpus on sibling threads, then
yeah, that's behavior we should probably try to get to the bottom of.

 -George


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